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Thread: Some US states now regulate computer you can buy

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    Super MURCer UtwigMU's Avatar
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    Default Some US states now regulate computer you can buy

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...ell-gaming-pcs

    "Approximately 59 million Americans spanning five states can't buy Dell's high-end Alienware brand desktop PCs "due to power consumption regulations."

    It used to be in 80s under communism that people would contraband C64s, Spectrums, Amigas and PCs.

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    Go to an adjacent state, buy it and drive home with it..
    paulw

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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    This is outrageous! Why can others buy these wasteful products?
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    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulw View Post
    Go to an adjacent state, buy it and drive home with it..
    Exactly.

    California, Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont and Washington.
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    Super MURCer UtwigMU's Avatar
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    Only the government should have computers this powerful.

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    Super MURCer MultimediaMan's Avatar
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    California has completed their transition into a permanent autocracy... devoid of reason.
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    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultimediaMan View Post
    California has completed their transition into a permanent autocracy... devoid of reason.
    I see the recall of Gov. Newsom is becoming more likely; support is up to 47% and climbing every time he opens his mouth. And that's a U. Berkeley poll.

    Califlakey also lost population last year, it lost 1 seat in Congress after the census, and the populace seems to be heading to anywhere else with lower taxes..
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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultimediaMan View Post
    California has completed their transition into a permanent autocracy... devoid of reason.
    Well, I am not so sure. Really, I'd have to look into it and think about it.

    I will say that we have a perhaps similar situation wrt vacuum cleaners. As it turned out, people really overwhelmingly estimated quality based on the power rating. Vacuum cleaners power consumption simply rose. Where when I was young, 1100 Watt was a serious cleaner, by 2010, 2000 watts was not uncommon. As it turns out, these cleaners suffered a lot of efficiency loss (leaking tubing or connections etc) but it was hard to convince anyone that a 800W vacuum could be better than a 1500W one.

    Nowadays, they are simply capped at 900W. The design/efficiency, which is what they can/need to compete on, has improved so much that a 900W machine today outperforms any 2000W machine 6 years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umfriend View Post
    I will say that we have a perhaps similar situation wrt vacuum cleaners. As it turned out, people really overwhelmingly estimated quality based on the power rating. Vacuum cleaners power consumption simply rose. Where when I was young, 1100 Watt was a serious cleaner, by 2010, 2000 watts was not uncommon. As it turns out, these cleaners suffered a lot of efficiency loss (leaking tubing or connections etc) but it was hard to convince anyone that a 800W vacuum could be better than a 1500W one.
    True... but the difference is that no-one judges the power of a computer by the wattage of the powersupply. It also does not prevent your from buying the components and making the same computer...
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    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VJ View Post
    True... but the difference is that no-one judges the power of a computer by the wattage of the powersupply. It also does not prevent your from buying the components and making the same computer...
    Yet. Give Califlakey time and they'll regulate whatever the far left lunatic fringe at U. Cal. Berkeley thinks proper.
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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VJ View Post
    True... but the difference is that no-one judges the power of a computer by the wattage of the powersupply. It also does not prevent your from buying the components and making the same computer...
    Wait, what?

    Sure, but GHz does still go a long way with people. It's not the same, sure, that's why I said I'd have to think about it. I have read a bit about this and apparantly only Dell/Alienware have issues with this. Moreover, many assemblers indicate that there are easy savings in energy consumption to be made that are now worthwhile.
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    Moderator VJ's Avatar
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    You are right about GHz, but the regulation is based on power usage, not GHz...

    It is stange that only Dell has this issue... OTOH, how many off the shelf gaming computers are there? I know MSI have, but cannot easily come up with another.
    Also, most PSUs are at optimal efficiency at 50-60% load, which is a justification for overcapacitating the PSU: it may never even reach its peak power output. So I'm not sure the vacuumcleaner analogy holds...
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    Sorry, I couldn't care less about Dell's offering, especially since if you want something, you can buy it elsewhere. The more concerning thing there, to me at least, is the part about:

    Energy Commission regulations which took effect on July 1. Under the new guidelines, annual energy consumption cannot consume more than 75 kWh/year, and cannot exceed an "expandability score" (ES) of 690, which includes idle power consumption.
    That's hardly about computers. That's about AC, ovens, heaters, the tools in your workshop.
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    Moderator VJ's Avatar
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    That quote is indeed on the linked page, but it is out of context. If you check the linked document that details the regulation (linked on the page), the 75kWh/year is specific for desktop computers. There are different numbers for e.g. laptops, but the document is only about computers.
    pixar
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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    How is it out of context? AFAIK, the only products impacted by this are some Dell/Alienware desktops, true. Neither I nor the linked page said it impacted all Dell/Alienware devices. I must misunderstand.

    My point with Ghz was that it is often used as a proxy for performance and that increasing GHz after some point, easily exceeded in current day CPUs and GPUs, comes at a disproportionate increase in power usage.
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