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Thread: video card in new computer

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    Moderator VJ's Avatar
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    Default video card in new computer

    Upgrading an old Pentium D to a Core i5... We got an i5 with integrated GPU, as that is more than sufficient for the usage.

    But... is there any point in installing the old videocard? It is a nVidia 8400GS.
    The integrated GPU (intel HD630) is faster at anything, but maybe there is some point?

    On my system, I noticed that I can assign the GPU for applications or encoding (I have the onboard intel HD4600 and a GTX1070) and there are some benefits to that...

    Another reason may be to have more video ports (the HD630 supports multiple monitors, but the mainboard has limited outputs)... does this make sense?


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    Super MURCer UtwigMU's Avatar
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    Since you're Euro Eco friendly guy (like me) I think running that videocard would just cause power draw and wouldn't contribute much. Also you have more complex OS environment and drivers, especially if you intend to use Linux.

    If you were American I'd suggest to get two of the same gen and go SLI.

    If you want multiple outputs (modern desktops have 3) add low power consuming card or buy different mobo.
    Last edited by UtwigMU; 22nd July 2020 at 06:15.

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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    I agree with Utwig though the use-case is unknown and may change that. So what is it going to be used for?
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    Moderator VJ's Avatar
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    Just a normal home computer for my parents in-law. Basic home usage... We know the i5 if even overkill for that, but it is nice to have a fast working system without having to worry about optimizing it too much. Also would be used by us if we need to - which happens on occasion.

    So the onboard video card is more than enough. The mainboard has hdmi, dvi and vga ports, so even connecting multiple displays should not be an issue.

    On my system, I see the benefits of 2 GPUs, but I also know that that system will not be used like that...

    They have a second Pentium D system, so we will see if we cannot cannibalize the broken system to improve that one (videocard, although it may have the same one, memory, ...).
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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    Ah, in that case... I agree with Utwig.

    Did you just happen to get an i5 for free? My mom wanted some help with her PC. Turned out it was like a 10+ yo Core2Duo or somesuch with 2GB. I just gave up. Build her a new one with a Ryzen3 3200G, 8GB and a NVMe SSD. Cheap, way more than what she needs but at least when I need to help I won;t have to wait 3 hours for it to boot.
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    Moderator VJ's Avatar
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    No, but as we both have had compatibility issues with AMD in the past (long time ago), we are both more inclined to choosing Intel.

    Surprisingly, there is very little price difference between the current generation (core iX 10xxx) and the previous generations (core iX 9xxx and 8xxxx), so we went for the cheapest i5 of the latest generation that has an integrated GPU - we know from my i7 4790 that the current onboard Intel GPUs are very capable, even for some games - and paired it with a low end B460 mainboard (but we did not choose a very low-end chipset). Added 16 GB ram (had problems finding 2x4 modules that were on the compatibility list), a 250 GB NVMe SSD and a power supply. The current disks are all SATA (some quite recent), so they will be moved. I have a Noctua cooler that fits (did not fully fit in another system due to the case dimensions) and it has the mount brackets for socket 1200 as it is the same mount as socket 1151.

    Overkill for sure, but the will be comfortable and we'll have little mess with support.
    Last edited by VJ; 23rd July 2020 at 06:40.
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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    So what did it cost? I had a MB+CPU (including cooler) for Euro 155. I did get 2x4GB, never even looked at compatibility lists because, well, I never had compatibility issues before.
    No, but as we both have had compatibility issues with AMD in the past (long time ago), we are both more inclined to choosing Intel.
    You the type that holds grudges for a long time then? I have the same with Sony. Never again. Last time was over 20 years ago....

    And yeah, Intel CPUs can't command very high prices anymore because of the Ryzen CPUs.
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    Moderator VJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umfriend View Post
    So what did it cost? I had a MB+CPU (including cooler) for Euro 155. I did get 2x4GB, never even looked at compatibility lists because, well, I never had compatibility issues before.
    It was quite a bit more... the mainboard alone was just over 100 euro, the cpu (also including cooler) was around 170 euro. Those without GPU are cheaper, but not so much (20 euro or so, for that price you don't have a videocard).
    The memory was quite expensive, but 16 GB was not twice as expensive as 8 GB and we had problems finding 2x4. OTOH the system will use it if it is there, so it is not lost.
    I am fully aware that there were cheaper options, but even the cheapest i3 with iGPU was over 100 euro. An i3 with GPU would have been 120 euro or so; an H410 chipset mainboard would have been around 60 euro. Somewhat close to your 155 euro, but difficult to push it more down.

    Seeing that my 6-year old i7 4790 performs at 60%-80% of that new i5 (according to benchmarks I've found), and it still manages everything we throw at it (esp. with the GTX1070), we are sure the i5 will also last a long time. I just checked, and the i3 mentioned earlier is barely 15% faster than the 6 year old i7. This is one of the reasons we opted for i5 over i3, and a mainboard with not the most entry-level chipset; we mainly wanted a solid platform for compatibility and reliability: we've both had our share of issues (also with memory that was not on the compatibility list), and figured we do not want to answer support calls frequently (esp. in times of pandemic, when travel limitations may suddenly appear). It is their only Windows computer (they have another old Pentium-D which runs linux, but I need to reinstall it), and it is important to have one decent working system for bank payments etc. (we thought them not to use a tablet for that )

    Quote Originally Posted by Umfriend View Post
    You the type that holds grudges for a long time then? I have the same with Sony. Never again. Last time was over 20 years ago....
    Not so much... but my wife...... O.. hi dear!

    Quote Originally Posted by Umfriend View Post
    And yeah, Intel CPUs can't command very high prices anymore because of the Ryzen CPUs.
    Hadn't thought of that...
    Last edited by VJ; 23rd July 2020 at 08:13.
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    Super MURCer UtwigMU's Avatar
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    For parents systems, etc... a used SFF corporate desktop with SSD is good solution: cheap, reliable, comes with Windows licence.

    I would just scrap PentiumD, that is dual Prescott core, I think I scrapped the last one at work some three years ago, only have 3 C2D systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UtwigMU View Post
    For parents systems, etc... a used SFF corporate desktop with SSD is good solution: cheap, reliable, comes with Windows licence.
    I thought of that, but it needs too much storage... it has 4 quite recent SATA disks and we have the case and can move the Windows license. Going for an SSF would mean moving the disks to external enclosures which would get messy (the desk was custom built and has a nice space for the tower) and would require us to get the external enclosures.
    I was looking at some SOC, as those also suffice and come on normal mainboards, but my other half was a bit weary of such systems. Perhaps inspired by the issues I have with a small system, although there the issue is that it was low powered to begin with (Intel Atom) and has a unpopular chipset (nVidia ion) which has not too good support.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtwigMU View Post
    I would just scrap PentiumD, that is dual Prescott core, I think I scrapped the last one at work some three years ago, only have 3 C2D systems.
    It is a Core 2 Duo, upon boot it says Pentium D - Core2 Duo. If it is well configured, it may suffice still as a backup system "just in case". It currently has an older Linux Mint, but I will upgrade it and perhaps try ZorrinOS as that looks the closest to Windows and seems well supported.
    pixar
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    I think Centos (with optionallly KDE or Gnome classic) might be the best parents distro as now Centos 8 will have 9 years of support and won't change. Centos is also well supported by Skype and the like.

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    Problem is that even Linux Mint Cinamon, which to me resembles Windows quite a lot, seemed a bit alien to them. I know you can customize a lot, but customizing for someone else is difficult... best if it comes out of the box with something good enough.

    So I will try with ZorinOS first, as that one really resembles Windows, and see how they manage with it. But I was also thinking that psychologically it may be better to go completely different, with something like ElementaryOS. Perhaps something that is similar but not the same is more confusing to them than something that is completely different....?
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    Super MURCer UtwigMU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VJ View Post
    Problem is that even Linux Mint Cinamon, which to me resembles Windows quite a lot, seemed a bit alien to them. I know you can customize a lot, but customizing for someone else is difficult... best if it comes out of the box with something good enough.

    So I will try with ZorinOS first, as that one really resembles Windows, and see how they manage with it. But I was also thinking that psychologically it may be better to go completely different, with something like ElementaryOS. Perhaps something that is similar but not the same is more confusing to them than something that is completely different....?
    Try KDE as it has start menu bottom left which opens when pressing win key and clock + notifications right, Dolphin is close to Win Explorer enough, without much customization.

    Also go with one of LTS based distros
    Last edited by UtwigMU; 24th July 2020 at 03:58.

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    We yesterday put the new system together. Some small issues in booting: first the uefi bios setting needed to be changed for the windows usb bootdisk to work and second, without network, you need to supply drivers before Windows starts installing (much easier to just make sure you have network to begin with, which we tried the second time), but it worked great. Windows installed from usb stick/network (not sure where it took most of the file from) to NVMe SSD in less than 5 minutes.
    Today we'll finalize the job by installing and configuring the necessary software.
    And maybe we'll take a look at the second pc and try to optimize the hardware (e.g. maximize the memory, get the best videocard, ...). I was wrong about that one though: it is a Pentium-D, but it probably says that it has dual core rather than being a core2 do.

    The broken computer clearly had a blown capacitor (one is bulging and shows signs of leakage). None of the USB works, and sometimes it does not even boot up (just halts during bootup, not even finishing displaying the string "memory test" but halts at "memor").
    pixar
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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    "memor" - Latin for "I Dead"?
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