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Thread: Tesla Cybertruck

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    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Default Tesla Cybertruck

    Tank

    Top model: 3 motor AWD; 800 HP/1000 lb-f
    (also 1 motor 2WD & 2 motor AWD)

    Ranges: 250+, 300+, 500+ miles
    Crew cab 4 door seats 5-6
    Body: 3mm 30X cryo cold-rolled stainless steel
    6.5' (2m) bed
    Below bed storage box
    120/220 volt outlets
    Air compressor outlet
    Tailgate loading ramp
    Air suspension (leveling)
    Clearance: 16"
    Approach angle: 35°
    Departure angle: 28°
    Rock bars
    Skid plate
    Optional solar tonneau (for charging)
    Optional stowable camper





    Rear can "squat" for loading






    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 25th November 2019 at 01:36.
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    Super MURCer KRSESQ's Avatar
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    1. It reminds me of the Landmaster from Damnation Alley.
    2. I've never seen mention of the maximum towing range with a full payload (bed AND trailer).
    3. It looks like the Ford truck in that video wasn't in 4WD (not that it would likely have made much difference but it might have been a slightly more dramatic contest).
    4. It does have excellent ground clearance, and a nice long bed, which is helpful. But I somehow doubt most of the folks who buy one are going to use it for its designed purpose anyway. (The majority of Hummers sold have likely never been off-pavement.)

    Musk claims that they've already received over 100,000 pre-orders. I wonder how many of those are actually farmers or contractors?

    Much was made of the windows shattering during the unveiling. But you don't really want truly unbreakable glass in your vehicle, do you? One can foresee situations in which smashing a window might be the only egress.

  3. #3
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    It's well over 200,000 orders now, so getting close to Model 3's introduction, and there's a breakdown of site hits documenting a lot of the interest is in the mountain states, Midwest and Great Lakes. Also Texas.

    They're talking about offering racers a full race package for events like Baja.

    Forgot to mention it has an overhead LED light bar built into the roof's peak.

    Range: dunno, but their Semi can haul 80,000 lbs 500 miles and there are similarities in the drive train.

    Battery: they're using a double-stack unit, and that range could significantly increase. Next year they introduce a new battery, an even higher power density etc.

    They're also working on a solid electrolyte battery, which will prevent dendrites from shorting the battery and deliver another big boost in power density.
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 25th November 2019 at 10:41.
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    A junior Ford exec challenged Tesla to a rematch with the F-150 of their choice, which Musk accepted,

    Elon Musk ✔ @elonmusk
    Bring it on https://twitter.com/sundeep/status/1198988235252199424
    |
    sunny madra ✔ @sundeep
    hey @elonmusk send us a cybertruck and we will do the apples to apples test for you
    https://www.motor1.com/news/384206/t...0-tug-war/amp/

    Later, Musk suggested the webcast the challenge.

    Then,

    https://insideevs.com/news/384376/fo...50-cybertruck/

    ***UPDATE: Ford has commented on this matter. We've paraphrased the comment below:

    “A senior Ford spokesperson told InsideEVs.com that Madra’s tweet ‘was tongue-in-cheek’ and meant to point out the absurdity of Tesla’s tow video.”

    That absurdity was itself a mocking of Ford ads showing a similar test. Now Ford's getting a good online ribbing.
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    Moderator dZeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRSESQ View Post
    1. It reminds me of the Landmaster from Damnation Alley.
    2. I've never seen mention of the maximum towing range with a full payload (bed AND trailer).
    3. It looks like the Ford truck in that video wasn't in 4WD (not that it would likely have made much difference but it might have been a slightly more dramatic contest).
    4. It does have excellent ground clearance, and a nice long bed, which is helpful. But I somehow doubt most of the folks who buy one are going to use it for its designed purpose anyway. (The majority of Hummers sold have likely never been off-pavement.)

    Musk claims that they've already received over 100,000 pre-orders. I wonder how many of those are actually farmers or contractors?

    Much was made of the windows shattering during the unveiling. But you don't really want truly unbreakable glass in your vehicle, do you? One can foresee situations in which smashing a window might be the only egress.
    re: windows shattering, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a clever trick to get more attention in the media. As you said, I doubt Tesla is going to lose any truck sales over a lack of unbreakable windows.

    Now, if Mr. Musk would only be as good with getting profitability up as he's with attracting media attention and investors, he wouldn't need to make up for the huge amount of continuous losses (apart from a quarter here and there which many Tesla critics claim are the result of accounting gimmicks or worse), and high turnover at the top of his company.

    Profitability in car sector appears to revolve either around high-volume production with a lot of re-use between models (shared platforms), or around high-margin low-volume niche products (premium sports/luxury cars).
    With global over-capacity in high-volume manufacturing, Mr. Musk may have made a huge mistake to move away from the rich peoples' toy Model S series.

    If interest rates ever recover and the barrage of cheap money stops, it will probably be the end of Tesla (as well as Uber, etc.). Note the 'if', because at this point I don't think central banks can ever normalize rates much, so if it happens it'll be because something forces their hands or a loss of control over interest rate policies.
    Last edited by dZeus; 27th November 2019 at 12:53.

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    Super MURCer UtwigMU's Avatar
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    I was going to create a separate thread on how ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) has ruined cars for average people.

    Since interest is zero, most people lease cars to which companies responded with creating more expensive less durable cars with many features which break around after the lease expires and cost couple of 1000 to fix.

    If interest had been higher, people would tend to buy more cars with cash in which case durability and repair cost would become more of a factor in buying decision.
    Last edited by UtwigMU; 27th November 2019 at 03:12.

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    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dZeus View Post
    re: windows shattering, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a clever trick to get more attention in the media. As you said, I doubt Tesla is going to lose any truck sales over a lack of unbreakable windows.
    Apparently it broke because the panel deflected just enough from the sledgehammer hit to damage the window. Video of tests before the event shows the steel ball bouncing off.

    Now, if Mr. Musk would only be as good with getting profitability up as he's with attracting media attention and investors, he wouldn't need to make up for the huge amount of continuous losses
    Paper losses. They make money on cars, a 20%+ margin on Model 3, but the roll that and more into expansion and R&D. The Silicon Valley model. That said, with Gigafactory 3 coming online in Shanghai (Model's 3 and Y + batteries) and Gigafactory 4 in Berlin in 2021 losses may be behind them.

    >
    With global over-capacity in high-volume manufacturing, Mr. Musk may have made a huge mistake to move away from the rich peoples' toy Model S series.
    Model 3 was the top selling luxury sedan in the US for 2018.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/tesl...car-in-us.html

    Where they miss is in crossover SUV and pickup truck markets, VERY large segments in the US. Those get addressed by the Model Y and Cybertruck. Model Y ships in 2020, Cybertruck in 2021. Down the line, mid-20's, a compact Cybertruck.

    Model Y has some neat innovations; a cast skateboard (chassis), and an extremely short rigid harness tech that can be installed by robots. The cast skateboard replaces over 70 welded parts with two parts and 2 fasteners. This veil on evolve to a single part soon as the tool is ready.

    If interest rates ever recover and the barrage of cheap money stops, it will probably be the end of Tesla (as well as Uber, etc.).
    >
    Tesla sells and leases, with leasing being very popular here. They're also selling insurance for their vehicles, and utility scale batteries for load leveling..

    But analysts miss one thing; Tesla's mainly a battery company which funds its R&D by selling products which use them in massive quantities.

    Coming up in early 2020 they're holding a Battery and Power Train event. There they're expected to announce major battery developments,

    the next generation for 2020 vehicles; lighter, higher power density, and <$100/kWh

    the 1,000,000 mile battery they developed with Dalhousie University in Canada, the
    paper being published a few weeks ago

    https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-ma...million-miles/

    work on a solid electrolyte battery, which would end the dendrite problem and up charge density. Many rumors about their R&D partner.
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 27th November 2019 at 16:40.
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    The Tesla Model Y crossover SUV may enter the market a few months early, orders for parts in Q4/19 spilling the beans.



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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtwigMU View Post
    I was going to create a separate thread on how ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) has ruined cars for average people.

    Since interest is zero, most people lease cars to which companies responded with creating more expensive less durable cars with many features which break around after the lease expires and cost couple of 1000 to fix.

    If interest had been higher, people would tend to buy more cars with cash in which case durability and repair cost would become more of a factor in buying decision.
    Uhm, I really don't see how one influences the other so I am interested in that thread. To be sure, if this applies to cars, does it apply to expensive computers, houses? Also, what is "most people" and how do you know cars nowadays are less durable? Are we talking operational or financial leases?

    The general intuition is, of course, that at higher interest rates, people would buy less cars simply because the "rent" on a capital good is higher which makes it worthwhile more often to maintain current stock (ceteris paribus).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umfriend View Post
    Uhm, I really don't see how one influences the other so I am interested in that thread. To be sure, if this applies to cars, does it apply to expensive computers, houses? Also, what is "most people" and how do you know cars nowadays are less durable? Are we talking operational or financial leases?
    Lower interest makes leasing (financial or operational) more attractive while higher interest makes owning more attractive. Do you want to save for that BMW or do you want it now at little additional cost over saving for the car.

    Leased car is typically replaced after lease expires while owned car is kept or resold by owner. In latter case condition of car at the end of period is part of how owner perceives value.

    Cars today have plastic exterior which is expensive to replace and many electronic features which are also expensive to replace. Thus after 10 years it's better to scrap than to fix a several 1000€ problem. Cars from 1980s such as W123 Mercedes and Toyota Corolla would last 20 years without breaking to the point it was too expensive to fix.

    The general intuition is, of course, that at higher interest rates, people would buy less cars simply because the "rent" on a capital good is higher which makes it worthwhile more often to maintain current stock (ceteris paribus).
    People would buy less cars and they would care more on how durable a car long term (how slowly or quickly it depreciates) is.

    Computers are different as basic computer still costs the same as it did a decade ago but workstations and professional laptops are going up in price. I think reasons are twofold. One is in order to make computer faster, makers have to include more and rarer silicon and other expensive low volume parts. Since makers in a stagnant market cannot grow volume, they need to grow price.

    For homes it's supply of cheap cash and higher demand due to immigration to cities and airbnb/booking which make it more profitable (but also more labour intensive) for owners. This has taken some existing homes from long term rent and resell markets.
    Last edited by UtwigMU; 28th November 2019 at 09:34.

  11. #11
    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    Makes no sense to me. Assume you got no money but need a car. You either lease one or borrow money and buy one. Why would you rather lease in a low interest rate environment and buy in a high interest rate environment? Surely, with both you pay interest (and at correlated levels)? If you have money, the same applies. You can lease it but receive nothing on the money you keep in the bank or buy it and save on the leases installments.

    And yes, leased cars are (in case of operational leases) returned to the lessor, typically at a pre-agreed price (adjusted for mileage and unfair wear-and-tear). So here it is about how the lessor perceives value and let me tell you, less durable cars have a relative low residual value and that affects the leasing price. And lessors know the market, it is their business. Popular leasing objects have always been objects with little depreciation.

    Yeah, maybe some 80's cars ran for a long time. Many are nowhere to be found because they broke. That's not different today. And a W123 Murc was not for average people anyway. Corolla's are still know for their expected durability.
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    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Cybertruck promo.

    Wonder if Tesla will finally start serious advertising once Model Y, Cybertruck and Roadster 2 get closer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
    Cybertruck promo.

    Wonder if Tesla will finally start serious advertising once Model Y, Cybertruck and Roadster 2 get closer?
    Tesla may not be perfect on all fronts but they have been pretty serious about their advertising. Which other car company has launched a car into space?
    Last edited by UtwigMU; 3rd December 2019 at 08:44.

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    Not sure I follow the logic of leasing produces cheaper less durable cars in general. I did not want a Mercedes, BMW or other higher end European cars due to repair costs. I cringe thinking an Alfa Romeo Giulia oil change is $500 a pop. Actually talked to both owners and lessees of the car I did buy. That was some straight up minimal bs and honest reviews of the Infinity Q50 (Premium Plus version + a few extras added), 2016 model year purchased.

    It has all the power of a Giulia, but I change oil at home for ~$40 using an extended performance 15k mile rated Mobil One full synthetic oil and a Purolator Boss 15k Mile rated filter and the 120k mile warranty still covers it. I rotate tires, keep aligned which cost me $115 including 7% state and local taxes last time and they washed, vacuumed and cleaned glass interior for free.

    Problem is I hate how fast I can eat tires up. When you have enough power to bark the rear wheel drive tires at 45mph (~72kmh) wishing you bought the AWD version. The front tires get the most wear

    BTW insurance company pricing forces higher prices. My plastic chrome grill frame is like $470, insane

    Most people think its still a brand new car, don't expect much of any maintenance issues, it just works like it should

    Elon's new truck is the new iPhone of pickups. I don't do "trendy" but once did have a Members Only black windbreaker a GF gave me.
    Yeah ELON, do a real tracker pull biatch! Wussing about with a fake showmans speal to garner media attention only with trickery is why it is not done in sanctioned pulling events. I come from the land of Tracker Pulling and as a kid went to the National Championships in held in Greeneville OH.

    P.S. I change the oil @ 7500 miles
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  15. #15
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    >
    Elon's new truck is the new iPhone of pickups. I don't do "trendy" but once did have a Members Only black windbreaker a GF gave me.

    Yeah ELON, do a real tracker pull biatch! Wussing about with a fake showmans speal to garner media attention only with trickery is why it is not done in sanctioned pulling events. I come from the land of Tracker Pulling and as a kid went to the National Championships in held in Greeneville OH.
    Just a reminder,

    The 3-motor Cybertruck puts out about 800hp with 1,000 lb-f (1,356 N-m) of torque from 0 RPM, and power to the ground via 35/12.5 offroad tires. 16" clearance, adaptive suspension, 35°/28° approach/departure angles...

    Rock bars, 30X stainless skid plate, integrated light bar....
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 3rd December 2019 at 16:54.
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