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Thread: SpaceX Starship & StarHopper [Super Heavy pad construction]

  1. #121
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Boca Chica

    More of the new SN1 rings, and Vertical Assembly Building (VAB) construction.

    The fins are being redesigned.

    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

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  2. #122
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    30X is their custom alloy also for use in the Tesla Cybertruck, and possibly other Cyber... vehicles - on Earth and otherwise.

    Indeng @yourfavgas
    Replying to @elonmusk
    (When) are you switching to custom alloy instead of 301 for starship?
    |
    Elon Musk ✔ @elonmusk
    Probably 6 months or so. 301 is certainly fine for orbit, but SpaceX 30X will be better.
    3:20 AM - Feb 10, 2020

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1226782860746555392
    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  3. #123
    Super MURCer MultimediaMan's Avatar
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    OK, my bullshit alarm has officially gone off... Numbered Stainless Steel alloys are ANSI and ASTM Standards. Each alloy has been exhaustively tested and their properties are so well-known they may as well be written on Stone Tablets (since about 1955 at least). Saying you are going to use a "custom" alloy is kind of a cop out... it means you don't want to purchase certified metals (which are a little more expensive)... this is very creative marketing to the detriment of the factual truth.
    Hey, Donny! We got us a German who wants to die for his country... Oblige him. - Lt. Aldo Raine

  4. #124
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    SpaceX has their own foundry, & metallurgists, which have created at least 2 new single-crystal superalloys used in Raptor's hot oxygen turbopumps (everything else cooked), and combustion chamber.

    EM on 30X;

    "Reason Cybertruck is so planar is that you can’t stamp ultra-hard 30X steel, because it breaks the stamping press."

    "Even bending it requires a deep score on inside of bend, which is how the prototype was made"

    "We’re creating this alloy at Tesla. Not a problem to create a lot of it, but we’ll need to come up with new body manufacturing methods, as it can’t be made using standard methods."

    "Good question. It’s a new variant of 300 series stainless steel, but it also gets cold-worked many times, depending on kilotonnage of press."

    Some 30X parts are being made here in MI.
    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  5. #125
    Super MURCer MultimediaMan's Avatar
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    "Reason Cybertruck is so planar is that you can’t stamp ultra-hard 30X steel, because it breaks the stamping press."
    That, is Bullshit.

    You don't stamp hardened sheetstock... it needs to be annealed first (and most of it is annealed and passivated before leaving the mill). Stainless Steel alloys work harden very quickly, whether machined or formed (Feeds and speeds while machining it are always critical). You have be aggressive when working it otherwise it will harden as you cut it. The trouble with stamping Stainless Steel is, after forming, it isn't always possible to anneal it again, depending on the alloy... Annealing Stainless can also be expensive (most of the time it needs to be in an Argon atmosphere to avoid burning off alloying metals).

    Regarding Superalloys... There are Stainless Steels which are Iron-based, and there are Superalloys which are Nickel-based... Superalloys have Stainless properties (some are more "stainless" than others... some Stainless Steels are mildly magnetic due to higher iron content, Superalloys are definitely not magnetic). Stainless Steel is not a Superalloy. The most common Superalloys are Hastelloy, Inconel, Incoloy, etc... (which are trade names for a very large family of Nickel Molybdenum-based alloys), it's various grades/ formulations are used in everything from Production Cookware to Rocket Engines. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see a custom Superalloy formulation used in a turbopump (especially with pure Oxygen), but I doubt seriously that the SpaceX formulation is truly "New". Single Crystal Alloys have been around for over 50 years... What has improved over time is the consistency of the heats and a better understanding of the ageing process (both of which were not technology-limited, rather they were constrained by lack of data over time). Computer-controlled ageing is where the largest Strength/Longevity gains have been realized.

    When I worked for Pratt & Whitney PSD, Hastelloys, and occasionally Titanium Alloys would be used for "cold parts", Inconel alloys in "hot parts" (compressors and combustors) were the norm; all of them were awful materials to work. Everything that applied with Stainless Steel applied almost double for Hastelloy. Hard on cutters and hell on equipment (high tool pressure). If you got a sliver of it in your skin, we had a special station setup next to the eyewash station with lighted magnifier and tweezers so you could find the metal and dig it out. Not fun. Many times it was a "team effort" (and spectator sport) to get one out.
    Last edited by MultimediaMan; 11th February 2020 at 12:44.
    Hey, Donny! We got us a German who wants to die for his country... Oblige him. - Lt. Aldo Raine

  6. #126
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    No SS alloy improvements since then? Hmmmm....

    The new High Bay structure for stacking Starships is almost complete. They'll build the cargo bay/habitat section, propellant tanks, and the thrust module and assemble them in there.

    Starship SN-01 should be going to the pad for tests & a static fire by early March - soon after stacking in the new High Bay. If all goes well, a flight test a few weeks later.

    Starship SN-02 is hot on its heels, with components being built, rings & domes stacked, with vehicle stacking after SN-01 vacates the High Bay.

    They want to scale production to 2 Starships a week in order to populate the operational fleet.

    Yes, a fleet.

    Elon Musk ✔ @elonmusk
    Replying to @SciGuySpace
    Hardest problem by far is building the production system of something this big. 2nd hardest is achieving full & rapid reuse with payload to orbit of ~2%.
    ||
    These problems are fundamentally intertwined. Building many rockets allows for successive approximation. Progress in any given technology is simply # of iterations * progress between iterations
    |
    Viv @flcnhvy
    Replying to @elonmusk @SciGuySpace
    Given the number of Falcon 9 iterations since 2011, including a huge number of little tweaks w/ each new vehicle, how many iterations do you expect to need to achieve similar or much better reliability as F9 w/ Starship?
    |
    Elon Musk ✓ @elonmusk
    F9 iteration slowed down as payloads became too important to risk. Little change is expected going forward with F9/FH or Dragon. Starship production & thus iterative improvement will be much faster than Falcon. Driving hard for fully reusable orbital flight this year!

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1230642008257069056
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 21st February 2020 at 01:48.
    Dr. Mordrid
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    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  7. #127
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Starship SN-01 stacking, tests, outfitting (LabPadre stream screenshot)

    Cargo module sections are still indoors.

    Stacking


    LabPadre livestream
    https://youtu.be/6uVaAugi5gs
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  8. #128
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    SN-01's propulsion module is at the pad for cryotreating & tests. A few weeks after a good static fire, the 20km test flight.

    Getting the crane & load spreader ready to place it on the test pad.

    The cargo module/nose cone is being stacked.

    SPadre @SpacePadreIsle
    She pulled a fast one on everyone with a stealth mode rollout this morning but there she is, proud and tall, waiting to secure her place in space history! #SpaceX #Starship #BocaChica https://t.co/6kuosPj0Al

    IMG_20200225_101623.jpg

    https://twitter.com/SpacePadreIsle/s...21426818027521
    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  9. #129
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    Fronius = Fronius International of Germany. High end welding.

    Elon Musk ✔ @elonmusk
    Starship SN1 tank preparing for Raptor attachment & static fire
    >
    SN2 tank integration starts this week with much less circumferential pucker. Thanks Fronius!
    >
    We had the wrong settings! To make the welds super flat & strong, we’re building a heavy duty, custom planisher, but just having the right settings is a major improvement.

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1232436994191441920
    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

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