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Thread: SpaceX Starship & StarHopper [Super Heavy pad construction]

  1. #121
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Boca Chica

    More of the new SN1 rings, and Vertical Assembly Building (VAB) construction.

    The fins are being redesigned.

    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  2. #122
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    30X is their custom alloy also for use in the Tesla Cybertruck, and possibly other Cyber... vehicles - on Earth and otherwise.

    Indeng @yourfavgas
    Replying to @elonmusk
    (When) are you switching to custom alloy instead of 301 for starship?
    |
    Elon Musk ✔ @elonmusk
    Probably 6 months or so. 301 is certainly fine for orbit, but SpaceX 30X will be better.
    3:20 AM - Feb 10, 2020

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1226782860746555392
    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  3. #123
    Super MURCer MultimediaMan's Avatar
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    OK, my bullshit alarm has officially gone off... Numbered Stainless Steel alloys are ANSI and ASTM Standards. Each alloy has been exhaustively tested and their properties are so well-known they may as well be written on Stone Tablets (since about 1955 at least). Saying you are going to use a "custom" alloy is kind of a cop out... it means you don't want to purchase certified metals (which are a little more expensive)... this is very creative marketing to the detriment of the factual truth.
    Hey, Donny! We got us a German who wants to die for his country... Oblige him. - Lt. Aldo Raine

  4. #124
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    SpaceX has their own foundry, & metallurgists, which have created at least 2 new single-crystal superalloys used in Raptor's hot oxygen turbopumps (everything else cooked), and combustion chamber.

    EM on 30X;

    "Reason Cybertruck is so planar is that you can’t stamp ultra-hard 30X steel, because it breaks the stamping press."

    "Even bending it requires a deep score on inside of bend, which is how the prototype was made"

    "We’re creating this alloy at Tesla. Not a problem to create a lot of it, but we’ll need to come up with new body manufacturing methods, as it can’t be made using standard methods."

    "Good question. It’s a new variant of 300 series stainless steel, but it also gets cold-worked many times, depending on kilotonnage of press."

    Some 30X parts are being made here in MI.
    Dr. Mordrid
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    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  5. #125
    Super MURCer MultimediaMan's Avatar
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    "Reason Cybertruck is so planar is that you can’t stamp ultra-hard 30X steel, because it breaks the stamping press."
    That, is Bullshit.

    You don't stamp hardened sheetstock... it needs to be annealed first (and most of it is annealed and passivated before leaving the mill). Stainless Steel alloys work harden very quickly, whether machined or formed (Feeds and speeds while machining it are always critical). You have be aggressive when working it otherwise it will harden as you cut it. The trouble with stamping Stainless Steel is, after forming, it isn't always possible to anneal it again, depending on the alloy... Annealing Stainless can also be expensive (most of the time it needs to be in an Argon atmosphere to avoid burning off alloying metals).

    Regarding Superalloys... There are Stainless Steels which are Iron-based, and there are Superalloys which are Nickel-based... Superalloys have Stainless properties (some are more "stainless" than others... some Stainless Steels are mildly magnetic due to higher iron content, Superalloys are definitely not magnetic). Stainless Steel is not a Superalloy. The most common Superalloys are Hastelloy, Inconel, Incoloy, etc... (which are trade names for a very large family of Nickel Molybdenum-based alloys), it's various grades/ formulations are used in everything from Production Cookware to Rocket Engines. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see a custom Superalloy formulation used in a turbopump (especially with pure Oxygen), but I doubt seriously that the SpaceX formulation is truly "New". Single Crystal Alloys have been around for over 50 years... What has improved over time is the consistency of the heats and a better understanding of the ageing process (both of which were not technology-limited, rather they were constrained by lack of data over time). Computer-controlled ageing is where the largest Strength/Longevity gains have been realized.

    When I worked for Pratt & Whitney PSD, Hastelloys, and occasionally Titanium Alloys would be used for "cold parts", Inconel alloys in "hot parts" (compressors and combustors) were the norm; all of them were awful materials to work. Everything that applied with Stainless Steel applied almost double for Hastelloy. Hard on cutters and hell on equipment (high tool pressure). If you got a sliver of it in your skin, we had a special station setup next to the eyewash station with lighted magnifier and tweezers so you could find the metal and dig it out. Not fun. Many times it was a "team effort" (and spectator sport) to get one out.
    Last edited by MultimediaMan; 11th February 2020 at 12:44.
    Hey, Donny! We got us a German who wants to die for his country... Oblige him. - Lt. Aldo Raine

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