Announcing Windows ... 10?

[Marshmallowman]

mediaportal,, I managed to get the drivers for a similar card with the same chipset to work.
I have a pinnnacle 3010ix , the drivers for a nova T2 work without crashing.

also got a compro e750...I might have to give it another go (only tried on on win 10 preview)

Best thing about mediaportal, is that you can get it to work with kodi (xbmc), so I watch TV on linux clients and android clients as well as windows

[Fat Tone]

I bought a Dell XPS 13 Signature Edition from Microsoft, which came with 8.1. I updated it to 10 with few issues. Today I tried to join it to the domain at work and realised it was 8.1 Home upgraded to 10 Home. Grrr. My bad.

No problem I thought, I have a spare 8.1 Pro licence code. I tried to upgrade to Pro with that, but no joy, not really surprising.

So is my only option to remove 10, update to 8.1 Pro and re-upgrade?

[Marshmallowman]

There is the Propack upgrade , not sure if its worth the price.

search for "pro pack" on this page

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/wiki/insider_wintp-insider_install/frequently-asked-questions-windows-10/5c0b9368-a9e8-4238-b1e4-45f4b7ed2fb9

[VJ]

I should give mediaportal a try... are you using version 2 or the other one? (it is a bit messy with those versions)

I don't really like Kodi, neither the interface not the fact that it collects all that metadata (and not all of it can be switched off). Can it be switched off in MediaPortal? I also tried emby (former mediabrowser), but could not get it to work properly; it also lacks DVB-T support (so you need mediaportal or npvr or so as a back-end). I just would like a nice interface to play tv and watch movies...

[J1NG]

Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro (from 8.1 Pro) went without a hitch thankfully (other than uninstalling Media Centre, as it was not supported anymore). So went ahead and got MediaPortal 2 installed. Works OK. A bit unintuitive to me, but only used it for around an hour so far. Will get used to it and streamline things as I go along. But seems like what most users will be looking for.

J1NG

[Marshmallowman]

I am using mediaportal 1.12,I have not tried 2 yet but I am tempted to give a try.
Mediaportal does have a few different themes, so you do have a few option interface wise

[Jammrock]

As far as I know you can still join Insider.

The first post-RTM Insider build just got released. Build 10525. There are some big bugs, so download with caution. This is Fast ring only. Slow ring will not get this update any time soon.

http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/08/18/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-10525/

[VJ]

I am using mediaportal 1.12,I have not tried 2 yet but I am tempted to give a try.
Mediaportal does have a few different themes, so you do have a few option interface wise

Does it allow you to switch off all meta-data collecting? That is not possible in xbmc/kodi, and I don't like that functionality. I've found that emby seems to allow one to switch it of, and am tempted to try that one..

[dZeus]

Does it allow you to switch off all meta-data collecting? That is not possible in xbmc/kodi, and I don't like that functionality. I've found that emby seems to allow one to switch it of, and am tempted to try that one..

on a related note, a lot of people are having the same question about the 'meta-data' collection by the OS itself at the moment...

On Windows 7/8/8.1 you can uninstall certain updates to stop collection of 'telemetry' data. On Windows 10 you can disable some stuff and will need to do some extra steps to prevent sending search queries (as I indicated in an earlier post). However, on Windows 10 you don't have the option of uninstalling updates in Home/Pro versions, nor do you have the ability to turn of collection of Telemetry data completely. Only Enterprise customers can turn that off (which is not really easy to get your hands on as a non-corporate end-user).

Seems like Microsoft is now in the same data mining business as Google... must be too profitable to ignore.
I'm starting to consider running a UNIX OS as primary/personal OS, and keeping a virtual machine with Windows for all business use (Office mostly)... or a secondary machine.

it's a real shame, as I really like Windows 10 usability so far... been using Mac OS X for work for some months now, and I find it a couple of steps back in certain regards compared to Windows (especially if you're a heavy keyboard shortcut user, or rely on Microsoft Office software including Visio that does not exist for Mac). And of course, Apple is or soon will be in the same data-mining business as Microsoft and Google are.

What do you guys think of the new data-mining capabilities that Microsoft does not want you to turn off?

[UtwigMU]

My plan is to move 2003 SBS to 2011 and to Linux after that sometime by 2020.

My next consulting laptop will also be Linux but I need some software around that runs only on Windows.

I don't think Linux on the desktop will get Photoshop, CAD and the like so we'll be stuck with Windows for a while. So my vision is similar to yours. I'll keep a side computer for Windows software.

The problem is average device will cost 200€ by 2020 and there is no room for hefty Windows licence in that. So Microsoft will have to make money on Windows by selling user data like Google does now

[Marshmallowman]

Well seems there are ways around the tracking

http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-disable-telemetry-and-data-collection-in-windows-10/

Not that I have tried it (yet)

Also look down in the comments section you get a nice list of things to block in your hosts file

I have only disabled all the normal tracking stuff during install for now.

AS to kodi and mediaportal, what meta data are you worried about. A far as I know at this point they only grab stuff for getting albumcovers etc as per almost every other media player.

[VJ]

AS to kodi and mediaportal, what meta data are you worried about. A far as I know at this point they only grab stuff for getting albumcovers etc as per almost every other media player.

I'm not worried about the metadata itself, but consider it pointless and it often messes up the metadata I have with new metadata in different languages (it is one of the perks of running a Windows with UK English locale setting, Belgian keyboard/Polish keyboards and a Polish internet connection). I have no way of forcing all metadata in English, so I prefer to handle it myself (if necessary).

I tried Emby, and that one seems to work fine and allows full switching off of metadata, but I haven't managed live TV in that one (even though the NextPVR plugin is installed).

[dZeus]

Well seems there are ways around the tracking

http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-disable-telemetry-and-data-collection-in-windows-10/

Not that I have tried it (yet)

Also look down in the comments section you get a nice list of things to block in your hosts file

I have only disabled all the normal tracking stuff during install for now.

AS to kodi and mediaportal, what meta data are you worried about. A far as I know at this point they only grab stuff for getting albumcovers etc as per almost every other media player.

It's easy to imagine that Microsoft will hardcode some IP addresses for servers used for data mining collection, or change the DNS name for said servers in a Windows Update.
I'm not prepared to implement hacks to have my system function the way I want it to. Microsoft needs to officially allow users to block data mining through a reliable mechanism that would not potentially change whenever a new Windows Update is installed. And that's not likely to happen, unless people refuse to upgrade to Windows 10. Which seems to be a failing strategy as there are already 75 million installs out there supposedly...

[Jammrock]

This message turned out to be huge. Sorry about that. It just kind of happened.

[rant]
I find all the Win10 data collection panic very fascinating (and not just because I work for Microsoft). Stuff like this has been going on for years with Google (online services and Android), Apple, Facebook, and just about every single social media and cloud service in the world, and few people have ever complained. But when Windows does the same thing...suddenly everyone is outraged!
[/rant]

As everything moves to "the Cloud" as a service this will be more common. It is already common. More people do it than anyone wants to admit.

Data mining for a company like Microsft, Google, and Apple is less about selling data and more about using the data. The data is used partly to improve a product (which features are used, which ones aren't? Why aren't they used? Do people try for a minute then stop because they can't figure it out?), or as a part of the product (like Cortana, Google Now, and Siri, which all record your queries, your voice patterns, your searches, etc. in order to improve accuracy (at least in Google Now and Cortana's case), predict your needs, store common queries, and other feature usage).

But most important, to these companies, they use it to improve the chances that you'll buy something. Facebook is the pro at this. Their click bait and targeted ads are second to none, and the bulk of their cash income. They aren't good at it by guessing. They are good at it because they know so much about you that it's a simply matter of running your data through an algorithm.

The only time data is ever really shared by any of the big companies is when it benefits them... as in sales. Targeted ads for products and services that the user is most interested in. So those third-parties are people selling you things. Ads in the Windows Store, or Play store, or iTunes, or on Facebook. Places where both the service provider and the third-party can mutually benefit.

Which is why Windows now has it's own store, and does not rely on traditional sales channels anymore. The big money is no longer there. The big money is with a large user base (this is one reason for the free upgrade) and some sort of platform store where you get a cut of all the action.

Looking it from this perspective Windows 10 is really the final piece in the catch-up game Microsoft has been playing to regain lost ground to other Cloud/online services. It's joining the wave of services that mine your data to improve profits through a large quantity of micro-transactions and monthly services rather than the traditional infrequent larger purchases and profitless third-party sales through traditional distribution channels.

And as Apple and Riot Games (League of Legends maker who earns $123 million per month on micro-transactions) will tell you, it can be a very lucrative market; whether us old school consumers hate it or not.

As for Linux... it's only a matter of time. Ubuntu has been, to a much lesser extent, sending data about their users to Amazon for targeted marketing for a while now. Linux businesses need to pay the bills, too. I give them another 3-5 years before all the major desktop distro's will be doing similar things.

Servers are a different story. Those won't act the same as their desktop cousins since the services aren't the same and there is an expectation of absolute privacy. The most servers do is customer experience program stuff, which has to be opted in/out from, and only collects anonymous data.


Back to Win10... if you are in the Insider program the EULA/TOS specifically says it collects data to improve the OS and there's nothing you can do about it. That's kind of the point...

For regular licensed users you can turn the data sharing off, and simply not use the Cloud-based features, like OneDrive, Microsoft Service Account (MSA), Store and Cortana, to avoid the Cloud EULA's, which are the ones that sound the most scary.

http://lifehacker.com/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-1722267229

... and many others.

And while I do agree there should be a big "opt-out of everything and let me use old-fashion Windows," I wouldn't hold my breath. The new model is here to stay.


One final note about updates. The way you think about updates is dead. Windows 10 is an operating system as a service. The way patching is done has been completely changed. The days of one off patches are mostly dead. There will be small patches for some out-of-band stuff, but if you have been paying attention to Windows Update you will notice that most of the patches you are getting are "Cumulative Updates" (CU). And those one-off's will land in the next CU.

One of the big complaints that people have been voicing for years is that you do a fresh install and then spend half a day installing hundreds of patches. Those days are done. All the updates get rolled into a CU and one, or a few, patches are pushed at a time. Done.

On top of that Win10 is using a *nix-like major-minor build system. Initial RTM was build 10240. Insiders on the fast ring are getting 10532 pushed to them today. At some point all Win10 users (except for LTSB Enterprise users) will get a new build. The old patches will no longer be need to be applied, as each build will have its own CU. In order to get updated all someone needs is the latest CU for that build.

This is one reason why you can't pick and choose. There's really nothing to choose from anymore.

The second reason has to do with usability. The service pack as been dead since Windows 8. Microsoft will not release service packs anymore. SP's make the OS slow and it takes forever for fixes to show up. The new models allows Windows to adapt quickly to new technologies and changes in the tech landscape, and improve interoperability and performance quickly.

The rollup model used in Win8+/2012+ isn't working. People don't realize that rollups are like mini-service packs and don't install them, especially enterprises. There is a lot of support effort put into fixing things a rollup fixes that no one realized they needed to install. So we moved to the build + CU model for as much of our user base as possible. That way when we have to fix something, it's a new something, and not an endless duplication of effort.

The final reason is security. When you can control the patching you can ensure all the security updates are getting pushed. You lessen the chance that your user base can get exploited over the long term.

Anyway, I'll stop ranting for now. Hopefully this answered and/or enlightened someone about the state of Windows 10. None of this is super secret or anything, it's just not collected well for people to understand unless you've been paying very close attention. Working for Microsoft gives me a deeper understand to how things have changed recently, rather than only having the panic media to tell me what they think is going on.

Shoot me anymore questions if you have them and I will answer if I can.

[UtwigMU]

The problem is that post NSA / Snowden and exposure of everyone collaborating with them is that no one can be trusted anymore to handle your data.