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Thread: Science discovers the obvious...again

  1. #1
    Moderator Dr Mordrid's Avatar
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    Default Science discovers the obvious...again

    The names of the "researchers" posted for obvious reasons

    Link....

    Association Between Swimming Lessons and Drowning in Childhood

    A Case-Control Study

    Ruth A. Brenner, MD, MPH; Gitanjali Saluja Taneja, PhD; Denise L. Haynie, PhD; Ann C. Trumble, PhD; Cong Qian, MS; Ron M. Klinger, MBA; Mark A. Klebanoff, MD, MPH

    Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2009;163(3):203-210.

    Objective To estimate the association between swimming lessons and the risk of drowning among children aged 1 to 19 years.

    Design Case-control study.

    Setting Cases were identified from medical examiners’/coroners' offices between mid-2003 and mid-2005. Jurisdictions included the states of Maryland and North Carolina, 14 districts (33 counties) in Florida, 3 counties in California, 1 county in Texas, and 1 county in New York.

    Participants Cases were children and adolescents aged 1 to 19 years who died of unintentional drowning. Interviews were conducted with 88 families of children who drowned and 213 matched controls.
    >
    Conclusions Participation in formal swimming lessons was associated with an 88% reduction in the risk of drowning in the 1- to 4-year-old children, although our estimates were imprecise and 95% CIs included risk reductions ranging from 3% to 99%.
    Dr. Mordrid
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    Super MURCer Fat Tone's Avatar
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    Sorry, but are they trying to imply that actually teaching a kid to swim can prevent it drowning? Patently ridiculous!

    The only reason we've been trudging to the pool every saturday morning for the last 7 years (between the two kids) is because we like getting up early come rain or shine and sitting in a virtual sauna for an hour.

    FT.

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    Super MURCer Wulfman's Avatar
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    I don´t think that this is as ridiculous as it sounds. I often hear the argument around here that a child that can´t swim is safer because it will stay away from water, is not tempted to swim too far out on a lake, etc.

    mfg
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    Last edited by Wulfman; 3rd March 2009 at 07:09.
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    Super MURCer Brian Ellis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfman View Post
    I don´t think that this is as ridiculous as it sounds. I often hear the argument around here that a child that can´t swim is safer because it will stay away from water, is not tempted to swim too far out on a lake, etc.

    mfg
    wulfman
    And if a child can't swim, he will be tempted to swim out farther??????
    Brian (the devil incarnate)

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    Super MURCer Nowhere's Avatar
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    People that can't swim don't have proper response when suddenly something unexpected happens (like bottom suddenly changing depth); they can more easily panic & choke even in shallow water.

    Anyway, Doc, as you see from responses it's hardly obvious...besides I'm not sure what "particular method of conduct discovers the obvious...again" actually means; do you propose some other method?

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    Super MURCer Wulfman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ellis View Post
    And if a child can't swim, he will be tempted to swim out farther??????
    sorry, should have taken the "too far" part out. was thinking about "not getting close to water anyway" / "splashing around in the surf" / "swimming out". *

    the whole argument circles around the idea that a swimmer is more likely to get in situations that result in drowning (swimming too far,..), whereas a non-swimmer with a "healthy" respect of water will refrain from doing so.

    anyway, I´m always surprised when I meet an actua youngl non-swimmer nowadays.

    mfg
    wulfman

    *) usually the "most people drown in knee-deep water"-argument comes out at that point.
    Last edited by Wulfman; 3rd March 2009 at 09:47.
    "Perhaps they communicate by changing colour? Like those sea creatures .."
    "Lobsters?"
    "Really? I didn't know they did that."
    "Oh yes, red means help!"

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    Moderator VJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfman View Post
    I don´t think that this is as ridiculous as it sounds. I often hear the argument around here that a child that can´t swim is safer because it will stay away from water, is not tempted to swim too far out on a lake, etc.
    My mother on holiday saw a child that couldn't swim, saw the pool, ran to it and jumped in... She was at reception checking it at the time, but immediately ran and jumped after it...

    Bear in mind that childeren sometimes cannot anticipate danger, which is true for both those than can and can't swim. So it seems logical that those that can swim have more chance.

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    Super MURCer Nowhere's Avatar
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    Oh, and another thing - some number of non-swimmers, especially children, "swim" using swimming-aid such as inflatable mattress or those two inflatable things on arms; surely with parents thinking that the second thing is "safer"...

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    Super MURCer Claymonkey's Avatar
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    I was swimming LONG before I was walking. The term 'water baby' should be the norm, not the exception.

    The older I get the more I realize common sense is NOT common, and every last ounce of it has to be taught.
    Wikipedia and Google.... the needles to my tangent habit.
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    Crabby Smurf Umfriend's Avatar
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    95% CIs included risk reductions ranging from 3% to 99%.
    Having some basic grasp of statistics, I do wonder what kind of dataset could yield such a wide CI at a 95% confidence level...
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    Moderator az's Avatar
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    Hey, Crabby Smurf, isn't it time to change your sig? On the other hand, 2009 is not over yet, so we'll see. I hope you're wrong, though, for her to become president the most likely reason would be Obama dying.

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    Super MURCer Wulfman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by az View Post
    ... the most likely reason would be Obama dying.
    ..and Biden, and Pelosi and ..had to look that up.. Byrd. but afterwards she would be in the prime position, yes.

    mfg
    wulfman
    "Perhaps they communicate by changing colour? Like those sea creatures .."
    "Lobsters?"
    "Really? I didn't know they did that."
    "Oh yes, red means help!"

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    Super MURCer Nowhere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by az View Post
    ...for her to become president the most likely reason would be Obama dying.

    And wasn't that the whole point of the sig, "what she will do to get to the presidency?", which was changed to include HC only after it became clear who won, AFAI remember? (previously to that Crabby Smurf had Palin in the sig, I think...)

  14. #14

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    i wonder how much money went into this.

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