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  • Canada, My Canada - What's Next?

    And here I've always thought Canada was conservative...

    June 17, 2003
    Canada to Allow Same-Sex Marriages
    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    TORONTO (AP) -- Canada will change its law to allow homosexual marriage, joining Belgium and The Netherlands as the only countries where same-sex couples can legally wed, Prime Minister Jean Chretien announced Tuesday.

    Chretien said the new law would be drafted within weeks and submitted to the Supreme Court of Canada for review, then put to a Parliament vote. His Liberal Party has a commanding majority in the legislature, though the issue has caused division in the Liberal caucus.

    The announcement means the government decided against appealing recent court rulings that declared the nation's definition of marriage as unconstitutional because it specified the union of a man and woman.

    An Ontario appeals court last week declared that wording invalid, changing it to a union between two people.

    ``There is an evolution of society,'' Chretien said in making the announcement after a Cabinet meeting. He said the law would allow religions the right to decide what marriages should be sanctified.

    An Anglican diocese in Vancouver has approved a blessing for same-sex unions, which it says is separate from marriage. The blessing ceremony, performed once so far, caused a split in the diocese with some churches dissociating themselves.

    Opinion polls indicate a slight majority of Canadians favor legalizing same-sex marriages. After the Ontario appeals court ruling and similar previous ones by courts in British Columbia and Quebec, the government was under pressure to change the law or file appeals that would have left the issue unsettled.

    Justice Minister Martin Cauchon said Tuesday it was time for change.

    ``We have decided not to appeal those rulings ... and proceeded with draft legislation that will be ready shortly ,'' he said. The new law would redefine marriage as called for by the courts while protecting religious freedoms, according to Cauchon.

    ``We're talking about essential freedoms here,'' he said.

    Svend Robinson, a Parliament member for the leftist New Democratic Party who has pushed for same-sex marriages in Canada, praised Chretien's government for showing leadership. He rejected opposition by conservative political groups, who argue that changing the definition of marriage uproots a fundamental tenet of Canadian society.

    Dozens of homosexual couples have obtained marriage licenses in the week since the court ruling, with at least one wedding taking place.

    In the United States, homosexual marriage lacks full legal recognition in all 50 states. Vermont recognizes civil unions that give homosexual couples the full benefits and responsibilities of marriage but are separate from legal marriage.

    ``Americans now have the chance to see a society can treat gay people with respect,'' said Evan Wolfson, executive director of the New York-based Freedom to Marry organization promoting homosexual marriage. ``Families are helped, and no one is hurt.''

    NYTimes

  • #2
    It is allowed in some parts of Germany as well ... personally i really have no strong feelings in one way or another. Interestingly enough i read that some couples threw the idea overboard after it became possible because it didn't seem rebellish enough anymore for them.
    Last edited by thop; 17 June 2003, 15:30.
    no matrox, no matroxusers.

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    • #3
      Oh how far my country has sunk. I had very little respect for the institution of marriage before; I have NONE now. But then again, I'm a homophobe.
      Bart

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      • #4
        I think they should come up with another word for it instead of marriage in these cases...

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        • #5
          Isn't Chretien the French word for Cretin?

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          • #6
            More like the word for dumbass based on recent events

            Dr. Mordrid
            Dr. Mordrid
            ----------------------------
            An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

            I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

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            • #7
              I think it's a good thing. You had almost no rights as the unmarried partner of someone before (visiting at the hospital, inheriting, signing on behalf of you and your partner alike), and this was/is a problem for both hetero- and homosexuals alike. I agree that maybe marriage isn't the right word/procedure for that, as it has to do with religion, but there should be a status equal in law to marriage, for both hetero- and homosexual couples.

              BTW, Rock and other homophobics: What exactly is your problem with homosexuals? Are you afraid?

              One of my best friends is gay, and he was my friend before both he and I knew he was, and he still is. It isn't as if he is a different or worse person now... Though I agree that I can't stand the kind of homosexuals who ALWAYS have to point out that they're gay, who always "bahave gay". This has nothing to do with sexuality, but with childishness and a inferiority complex.

              AZ (heterosexual, but I'd have no problem with admitting I were gay if I were)
              There's an Opera in my macbook.

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              • #8
                awww... I'd still love you if you were gay AZ... especially with those shoulders.... mmmm.....*cough* back to the topic.. .yeah, I dont have a problerm with it.

                I understand what Brian means by having a different word thouh... I mean, Andea and I are not getting married in a church... still...I'm just rambling on like an old fool....
                The Welsh support two teams when it comes to rugby. Wales of course, and anyone else playing England

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                • #9
                  So make it an officially sanctioned "joining" that isn't marriage.

                  Make it an official, legally recognized "life partner" or something.

                  Don't call it marriage.

                  That degrades the institution of marriage for those of us that entered into it in good faith.

                  - Gurm

                  P.S. I'm not homophobic, and I _do_ support, as I said, some kind of life-partner recognition. But not "marriage".
                  The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                  I'm the least you could do
                  If only life were as easy as you
                  I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                  If only life were as easy as you
                  I would still get screwed

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                  • #10
                    Marriage is a piece of paper that entitles you to a few benefits, nothing more. I see it simply as a label for pigeonholing people.

                    I have lived with Andrea for over three years. What is mine is hers and vice versa.

                    Having a piece of paper to confirm that is meaningless to me. But then I am not religious. Do I think that marriage between homosexual couples degrades the term, certainly not. Anyone who believes that IS prejudiced in my book.

                    But then hey, everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.

                    That degrades the institution of marriage for those of us that entered into it in good faith.
                    Can you explain more about this?
                    The Welsh support two teams when it comes to rugby. Wales of course, and anyone else playing England

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                    • #11
                      Look, if YOU have what it takes to bind yourself into a long term commitment without any blessing from Church, State, or Society then by all means have at it.

                      However, marriage is something special. It is recognized by Society, Church, and State as a legal and spiritual union.

                      There are a lot of things that I think degrade marriage. The ease with which divorces are obtained nowadays. Nobody takes the commitment seriously.

                      My grandparents were married for 50 years. During part of that time they didn't get along, but they never believed in breaking up even though they had hard times. In the end they were stronger and more in love than before.

                      My parents are the same way. 30 years+ and going strong. Despite the temptation at points to just walk away, they didn't believe in that. You make a promise, a commitment.

                      So marriage is something special.

                      I am not questioning your relationship with Andrea. But if you REALLY piss her off, she can just walk out. So can you. There's nothing keeping you there beyond your own decision to stay.

                      You could argue that in today's society, there's nothing keeping a married person there, beyond a piece of paper and a formality at the courthouse. And that's technically true - which is sad.

                      Why do I think "Gay Marriage" cheapens the institution of marriage?

                      I'll explain. I know this is getting long.

                      The problem here is a matter of lifestyle choice. There is an endemic problem with homosexuality - one which even homosexuals will admit.

                      There are two kinds of homosexuals. The ones which want what the rest of us want - a girlfriend/boyfriend, partner, etc.

                      And... the ones that just want sex. The problem is that the promiscuity ratio is MUCH higher in the homosexual world than it is in the heterosexual world. The "gay culture" promotes it, sadly.

                      Are there couples out there who are REALLY committed to each other? Sure. Are they as numerous as the number of couples that want to get "married"? No.

                      Frankly, I think that there should be less HETERO marriages as well. Maybe if it were more difficult either socially or legally to get married, people would take it more seriously.

                      *sigh*

                      It's early. I'll likely delete all of this and start over once the coffee kicks in. No sleep + Gurm = TIRED.

                      - Gurm
                      The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                      I'm the least you could do
                      If only life were as easy as you
                      I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                      If only life were as easy as you
                      I would still get screwed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I still think of marriage in the old-fashioned way - meaning a religious bonding of opposite sexes for the purpose of legitimizing the union in the eyes of the church.

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                        • #13
                          It's early. I'll likely delete all of this and start over once the coffee kicks in. No sleep + Gurm = TIRED.
                          Hey, perhaps I should have said ‘can you explain this a BIT

                          I am not going to argue the spiritual and religious aspect of getting married. If YOUR religion dictates that you should be united in wedlock then far be it for me to comment. However, I do start to have a problem when it is enforced on other people. Hey, it is only accepted by society because of its religious significance.

                          I am not questioning your relationship with Andrea. But if you REALLY piss her off, she can just walk out. So can you. There's nothing keeping you there beyond your own decision to stay.
                          Aye, I can. And so can she. I don’t have a problem with that. If you don’t get on with someone then I think you should be able to just walk out.

                          In my grandparent’s generation it was frowned upon to move into a house together before you were married. Imagine being newly wed and then having to live together for the first time… what if you don’t get on… yeah you should give it a go, yea everyone fights, but if it all goes tits-up, should you really HAVE to learn to live with them??? I guess the answer is that you shouldn’t have been married in the first place…

                          Andrea and I are getting married (20-something of November) and I think that in this day and age it is important to do that. I would not want to have kids outside of marriage. Only because society is set up so that marriage provides the maximum amount of security for your children, and I believe that it is important to have a stable home for your kids. If I were to fall out with Andrea and we decided to go our separate ways, I would make sure that the kids were old enough to not need us both under the same roof. But I would do that if we were married or not.

                          Anyway, enough rambling about me. What I was initially commenting on was the statement that homosexual couple degrade marriage.

                          I know that you are tired and I am taking your post at face value, as I hope you take mine

                          Your comment on there being ‘two kinds of homosexuals’ is erm.. well a tad… dodgy. If you want to go down that route, then I think it is fair to say that there are two types of people. Promiscuity is not limited to homosexuals. And yeah, Gay Culture has a lot to blame, but that doesn’t make the bloke next door less able to form a committed relationship.

                          Are there couples out there who are REALLY committed to each other? Sure. Are they as numerous as the number of couples that want to get "married"? No.
                          Even if that is true. Does it matter? Just because the people next door aren’t committed it doesn’t mean that I am not and it should stop ME from getting married.

                          Anyway, I think the bottom line is, as you put it, it is too easy to get married and divorced. That does make a mockery of the system, yes. Should it prevent people who are dedicated from getting married, no. At least not in my book.

                          *edit*
                          Well re-reading that sorta makes sense, at least to me… well kinda(ish)…

                          So do I think that homosexual marriage degrades the term, no.
                          Marriage is degraded by people, regardless of orientation, who don’t enter it for life.
                          The Welsh support two teams when it comes to rugby. Wales of course, and anyone else playing England

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                          • #14
                            I'm glad I married the woman I love. I would never have it any other way. I see marriage as the cornerstone and foundation of the family, and my family is more important to me than anything. I agree that another word would be more appropriate in the case above.
                            --Insert something here--

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Paddy
                              Marriage is degraded by people, regardless of orientation, who don’t enter it for life.
                              Absolutely, speaking as one who is coming up to his 44th wedding anniversary but who is neither heterophobic (rather the contrary ) nor homophobic. We were married in church as a testament of our faith, as well as our love. I don't hold those who have taken their vows outside of a religious context as being second-class couples and I don't see why those who take them outside of a heterosexual context should be second-class either. The word "marriage" has no religious significance per se, only what significance the reader puts into it him(her, it)self.
                              Brian (the devil incarnate)

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