VIA 686B -> SB Live Data Corruption. Looking for Trouble and *Not* Finding It.

[paulcs]

I realize this is an unusual request. I'm not asking for a fix. I'm looking for a way to reproduce an error.

I've been trying to reproduce the data corruption error associated with the 686B Southbridge and the Soundblaster Live. I've read conflicting reports, but the error is suppose to occur when transferring data from disk to disk with the first HDD configured as a master on the primary IDE channel and second configured as a master on the secondary channel.

I also tried it with both HDD's on the primary channel in a typical master/slave configuration.

This is the test I tried to recreate:

http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cf...WT042501034500

No cigar so far. Business Winstone 2001, which has given me errors for looking at the screen the wrong way, has run relatively error free as has Content Creation Winstone. I've gotten some "variation" errors (difference in scores in a five run test exceed 3%) in Business Winstone, but I doubt this has anything to do with data corruption. Other than that, the tests ran fine.

Is the test flawed? Is there something I missed? Can you guys think of a better way to reproduce the error. (I'll be transfering some really large multimedia files to see if that does the trick a little later.)

I'm not using the exact same hardware, but the basics are all there: KT133A chipset and a SB Live. Here are the system specs:

Athlon 1.2 GHz
128 MB Crucial PC133 SDRAM (7E)
Abit KT7A (No RAID)
GeForce 2 Ultra
Soundblaster Live MP3 (PCI 3)
Netgear NIC
VIA 4in1 1429v

Memory timings are set at their most agressive. The CPU is a 200 MHz version, but I'm running it at 9x133.

I'm using a set of Live drivers I downloaded from Creative's site a few months ago. They're dated May 2000. All software associated with the Live that loads at startup has been disabled to accomodate Winstone 2001's requirements.

The guy in the linked article used PCI 2 for the Live. I used PCI 3, which works well for me

Thanks for helping me screw things up.

Paul
paulcs@speakeasy.net

[Wombat]

What BIOS are you running? Both HD's running ATA/100? When did that version of the VIA drivers come out? My lockups happened with 4.25,4.28, and the first 4.29 (found the fix, didn't try more versions).

Are your PCI latency timings in the BIOS too relaxed?

[paulcs]

Both drives are at ATA-100 and benchmark accordingly. I'm using the WZ_01 BIOS from January. I haven't run into any issues, so I saw no reason to upgrade.

PCI latency, and I'm not as familiar with these controls as I should be, are at the optimized default settings. I just went through the BIOS, and everything appears to be set at the most aggressive settings. I saw nothing set that might involve delays or "wait stages." (I hope I didn't misunderstand you.)

Certainly, nothing seems to be adversely effecting performance. I've tested it against it's Asus counterpart, and it noses ahead in most tests. This is the reverse of what I expected.

In nearly every respect, this board has exceeded my expectations. The install was the most uneventful I've ever had. Performance has been very solid. I didn't want to write a softball, promo piece-like review, and I ended up with nothing to write about. I sat on it for a while, figuring something would turn up and fixes would appear. Unfortunately (as ridiculous as this may sound), I can't find anything to fix.

One can't help but notice that people's experiences with certain models of Abit boards are sometimes vastly different. It's one thing when it pops up on USENET, but I've seen it happen here too often to believe it's just a matter of user experience.

Have you had any data corruption problems?

Paul
paulcs@speakeasy.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 05 May 2001).]

[Technoid]

There is BIG chance that you won't find it either.

[The PIT]

Don't worry I found it. Fixed it with the latest beta bios and few bios hacks using wpcset. Also made sure that my Asus DVD doesn't run on the secondary channel on either the Via controller or the high point otherwise I get stuttering playback or crackling.
As against that I've got few more cards than you.
If you want instant death put your soundcard in the pci slot 4 which shares with the usb. You should get an blue screen instantly.
You also got the raid non raid version which makes the combinations easier to work out.
The only weird thing at the moment is Nortons under windoze 98 is determined that my first hard disks extended partion is corrupt while it's on the Highpoint. If I move the drives across to the via controller ndd says everything is fine. Under win2k no errors are reported.
I've also seen the error at work where files copied from the Cd Writer on the secondary were corrupted.
If you want fun try getting this combo to work.
G400
3com network card
Hauppage wintv card
Adaptec 2940 scsi card
Soundblaster live 5.1.
Remembering that I can't use the secondary ide controller so I've got to enable the highpoint controller it makes a shuffling around good fun.
Also the scsi card doesn't like the usb either or the wintv very much.
I don't use the via drivers either now as they were rather unstable as well.
By the way my introduction to the problem was the simple act of switching the computer on and watching my win2k partition disappear.
If the problem doesn't exist Via wouldn't have reconised it and neither would the motherboard manufactures be releasing bios fixes adjusting the timings in the bios.
Take a look at the forums on Viahardware.com for the entertainment.

[paulcs]

I never meant to insinuate that the problem didn't exist. I know it exists. I just could't recreate it.

I did have problems with the Asus A7V133 with an Promise "RAID Lite" controller. The system was so unstable with the Live in PCI 4, that I didn't really do anything with it until it was fixed. I moved the Live to PCI 3, flashed the BIOS, and it stopped blue screening.

I usually never put hard drives on the secondary PCI channel, and I tend to disable stuff I'm not using. I'll enable USB and install a SCSI board and see what happens.

Thanks.

Paul
paulcs@speakeasy.net

[The PIT]

I wasn't having a go at you. I just had to assure you it does exsist.
If I didn't have a DVD drive or more than one hard drive I'd most likely be sitting around saying what problem.
Playing around with this lot was like going back to the dark ages. I'm still waiting for Abit to bring out a new final bios. What I don't like is having two relatively useless 2nd ide channels. I suppose I could a drive with lunix on one of them if I wanted then perhaps not.

[Wombat]

I seem to be the only person I've found with my problem so far. With my 75GXP on the primary channel, and my PlexWriter Master/Slave/single on the secondary, my computer would reboot when I tried to burn a CD (sometimes if I ran at 1x, always if I burned faster).

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Epox 8KTA3 w/ Duron 850@7.5*133 with Alpha 6035, 256MB Crucial 7E, G400MAX,SBLive!-MP3,Pioneer 10x DVD, Plextor 12/10/32A, IBM 45GB 75gxp, and a Sony 420GS. Running RH7.0 (2.4.0-final), and Win98 (when I have to).

[EchoWars]

Depending on what burning software you might be using, you may have some sort of conflict. Go to the \Windows\system\IOSubsys folder and rename SCSI1HLP.VXD to SCSI1.OLD. Fixed some burner problems with that one...

[Wombat]

Thanks Echo,
But I went through all sorts of SCSI, ATAPI, ASPI hoops, to no avail. I had Plextor's (polite, respectful to people that they realize understand hardware) tech support stumped. But when I installed George Breese's VIA software patch, everything worked.

[paulcs]

This is one of those bugs I'd never come across. Typically, I install hard drives on the primary channel and, in one case, the onboard RAID controller. I tend to do large file transfers across my network. My CD burner is on an i815E based machine and it's SCSI. I use the CD ROM, which is configured as a secondary master, pretty much for installation purposes only. (You would think installing Quake3 would trigger the problem, but it hasn't so far.)

I'm going to burn some large RAR files onto a CD on another machine and try to transfer them to the KT7A system via the CD ROM on the secondary channel. I'll test their integrity, transfer them from HDD to HDD, retest, and report back. Maybe I'll install a SCSI controller, just to eat up resources, and see if that has an effect.

Paul
paulcs@speakeasy.net

[Shandra]

Hi Folks,

Ok - I do not know much about the bug (just bought me a Asus AV7133 and a 133 - 1GHz Tbird - will build the system tomorow...)

Here is the Information I sampled so far:

To avoid the Southbridge Bug - Do not use the 2nd IDE (VIA IDE) or: disable PCI Delay Transaction and PCI Master Read Caching...
Set PCI Latency to 32 or less....
So if you have a Duron that should be the default setting for it - so no prob...
The SB Live is just a katalysator for the problem as it sends data (just Blanks) over the PCI Channel, even if it is doing nothing at all...

To Reproduce the Problem: activate the Bios settings mentioned, Put heavy weight on the PCI Port (Playing MP3, etc.) and transfer data from VIA IDE 2nd Port Master to 2nd Port Slave.... and be sure that you use
BIG Files (lets say 300 MB zips, etc....)

The Point is it CAN happen, not that it must.....
and if you have a good board, and a new bios
well - maybe you are already fixed... maybe
there IS a new revision of the 686B out there
that are not "infected".....

Well could have said more if there wasn't that strange experience:
I had have build my system at friday... got the right MOBO Box, the right manual... but the wrong board... missing Jumper 13&14 - and booting up, it introduced itself as a A7V... somehow a downgraded A7V133(? - that was the printing on the board, but as I looked deeper just KT133 and SB686A) - haven't got the slightest Idea who messed that up (As the box seemed to be unopened)

Well Hope I will have a stable system too...
(Ok, I am NOT going to use the 2nd IDE Port, just 1st, and both Promise Channels in ATA Mode)

I recommend reading: http://www.au-ja.de/review-kt133a-1.html
(It is in German, but has a link to an english translation of it...)

CU,
SHAnDRA

[DentyCracker]

I have the original kt7 and G400, XGamer 5.1 (pci2), ATi TV Wonder (pci3), Kingston KNE120TX (pci 5). I really have no problems as such, and all mem settings are quite aggressive (4way interleave, cas2, turbo etc). I can tell you that if the soundcard isn't seated properly then you'll have a lot of (un)fun setting it up. I remember in the early days I had problems when I was using both pci4 and pci6. I read a long time ago that using those slots was to be avoided unless necessary so I haven't used them since

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1° System
Inwin Q500 Case
Abit KT7 Motherboard
AMD Duron 700@850 MHz.
384MB PC100 Cas 2 PC100 SDRAM.
Maxtor 20 GB 5400 RPM UATA 66 HD
Quantum Fireball 4.3 GB UATA 33 HD
Plextor PX-W8432 burner
Toshiba SD-M1402 DVD ROM drive
Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1
Matrox G400 DH 32MB
Mag Innovision DX17T
Klipsch ProMedia v2.400 Speakers
ATI TV Wonder*sigh*
Realtek 8039AS based 10Mbps NIC
Running WinME, Win2K SP1, BeOS 5.03

2° System
Generic Finger Slicer AT Case
FIC VA503+
IBM Cyrix PR 266 *brrr* (long story)
128 MB Generic PC100 SDRAM
Maxtor 10 GB 7200 PRM UDMA33 HD
Creative Labs Ensonic AudioPCI64 (es1371)
Matrox Millennium G200 AGP
Realtek 8019 ISA NIC
Win98 2222A
Win2k Pro SP1

3° System

PCChips M571
Intel Pentium MMX 233
128 MB EDO DRAM (SIMMS)
IBM 10 GB HD
Diamond Stealth S3 trio 64
Realtek 8019 ISA NIC