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View Full Version : OK Now i have a new toy - can you help me with a few things?



Paddy
15th November 2000, 07:32
I have touched on this in an other thread, but I wanted to reach a wider audience http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

I am running Win2K SP1 on the following:

T'bird 1GHz on an Asus A7V
224 Mb PC100 RAM (128Mb Double bank, 64Mb single bank, 32Mb double bank)
IBM DJNA-372200 21Gb UDMA 66 Drive
IBM DNES-309170W SCSI Disk Drive
Matshita DVD-ROM SR-8584A
Plextor PX-W1210S SCSI CD-RW
Intel Pro/100+ Management Ethernet Adaptor
Iwill 2936 Ultra Wide SCSI controller (reported as an Advansys 3550)
SB Live! 5.1
USB IntelliMouse Explorer Optical
UM9800 V.90 USB Modem
Tornado 1000 case (with six 80mm fans!)


I am happy with the build of my machine but I have three problems that I hope you can help me with!


[1] What temperature range should my CPU be running at?

With all the fans off (except the one on the heat sink and PSU) it runs about 55'C. If I turn on just the 80mm fan above the CPU it runs at 47'C. If I turn them all on it stays at 40'C. All measurements are with the case closed and after running Quake 3 for a while!
The air flow is quite loud so I only want to have on as much as I can get away with - with out risking damage to the rig!


[2] I can't enable DMA on my DVD ROM!

A stupid question I know! I found out that the option has moved from the properties of the drive to the controller in Win2K, however the drive still uses PIO mode. I have changed it in the past, but on my new motherboard there is an option to set the DMA and PIO levels per device - I cant get one to work without getting a failure during the POST...


[3] My SCSI writer doesn't work!

If I insert a CD and view any file it reads the properties correctly, however and executables or ZIPs report CRC errors. If the file is small <300K they usually work. My Plexwriter uses the wide interface (50 pins) compared to my Disk (which uses the UW 62 pins). If the numbers of pins are wrong I'm sorry! My Disk appears fine. Any ideas?

If you are reading this bit then thanks for your time!

Any help will be gratefully appreciated!

Paddy

Jorden
15th November 2000, 07:59
Pat, about the last question. When you insert a CD to be read, do you insert it in your DVD-ROM? For as far as I see (having downloaded the latest Hardware Compatibility List from MS), your DVD-ROM is either not recognized (yet), or has the wrong drivers.

Check on your DVD's mfr site for possible Win2k drivers and/or if they say it's Win2k compatible.

Ofcourse, if you don't read your CD's from your DVD, then I said not a thing http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Jord.

Paddy
15th November 2000, 08:06
Doh! question 3 concerns my CD-RW! And it was working before i got my new mobo.

Perhaps there could be a problem with the SCSI controller and the via chipset? But that wouldn't explain why my SCSI disk works...

Gurm
15th November 2000, 08:10
DVD:

Most Panasonic firmwares are NOT Ultra-DMA. Many won't do DMA at all. Go to the firmware page, and get the latest one in Ultra-DMA flavor. My brother has a Panasonic and I had a bitch of a time making it run properly.

SCSI:

Plextor burners are REALLY REALLY touchy about termination. You shouldn't be mixing wide and narrow devices on the same chain anyway - are you using an adapter for it? It should be on its own chain, as the only device, and terminated via jumper on the back of the device.

Also if you have external devices at all, their proper termination is VITAL to the Plextor working correcly.

You're lucky - when I had bad termination my Plextor wouldn't even post.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Paddy
15th November 2000, 08:19
DVD: DMA was working fine before i threw the drive in my new mobo. I will check for a new firmware update. btw - i can set pio/dma in the bios - could this be causing a problem?

SCSI: I have one adaptor (IWill 2936 UW) and two devices:

small cable IBM Disk
large cable CDRW

The adaptor has auto termination enabled (and the disk works) - perhaps a jumper has fallen out the back of the CDRW?

Paddy
15th November 2000, 08:32
My CDRW has termination enabled.

Should the SCSI disk also be terminated as it uses a different cable? If so, should i turn off termination on the card?

Sorry - new to SCSI!

SteveC
15th November 2000, 08:52
Oi Patrick! You're a poor student!! What are you doing getting a new PC like that?!!? http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

"Life is what we make of it, yet most of us just fake"

Guru
15th November 2000, 08:55
Gurm while we are on the subject! Do you know of any other firmware page then www.firmware.com.bi (http://www.firmware.com.bi) ?


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Don't get even get odd!

Paddy
15th November 2000, 08:56
Gurm:

Good thinking Batman! - I manually disabled termination on the adaptor (rather than automatic). It seems fine!

Steve:

My PSU killed my mobo so i claimed for a new one on the insurrance! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Gurm
15th November 2000, 12:51
http://perso.club-internet.fr/farzeno/firmware/

Is the page I normally use for firmware. That's where I checked your drive (like a dozen different firmwares for your drive!). They're pretty good.

As for termination... think of SCSI as a chain. Both ends need to be terminated. Not the middle.

Adaptec cards are really good about termination. Yours could need a BIOS update (yes, there are BIOSes on SCSI cards as well, heh), or it just might not be very good at auto-terminating when you have all the chains in use.

In fact, cards with three plugs can't have all three used without enabling multiple LUNs, it screws up the termination (no three-ended chains allowed).

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

ayoub_ibrahim
15th November 2000, 16:17
interesting, both those web addresses point to the same firmware site!

Paddy
16th November 2000, 03:04
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!


I downloaded the service pack for ie 5.5 and when it rebooted i got a lovely BSOD.

Booting into safemode brings about the same. Boot logging appears normal. It occurs just before it changes resoulution to give the login prompt.

The recovery/command prompt looks ok.
Repair does not work.

Bugger.

And i had just converted all my drives to NTFS as well.

I have put win98 se on my SCSI disk (only had games on before) so i can talk to you...

To be honest i am pretty fed up with Win2K, is ME any good?

Paddy
16th November 2000, 03:21
Right,

I have d/l NTFS for win98 so hopefully i can salvage some of my data.

Having used 2K for so long, i dont want to go back to 98, that why i thought of ME...

I'd miss the security, but i suppose the overall gaming performance would be better.

I could do with some help guys.

btw, i have d/l some firmware for my drive (z15c) it supports UDMA and region free - however, win98 reports the drive as using DMA before flashing. Any ideas?

Paddy
16th November 2000, 06:07
ACPI was fine

Gurm
16th November 2000, 06:45
Wow. The only thing I can really say is don't install IE5.5 next time.

Man: Doctor, it hurts when I do this!

Doctor: Don't do that.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Paddy
16th November 2000, 10:53
right, this is what i have done:

1) delete a partition containing only games
2) format the partition as FAT32
3) install win98
4) d/l a ntfs driver
5) copy all file from the NTFS primary active partition to the FAT32 partition
6) format the primary partition as FAT32
7) Install Win2K on the primary partition leaving it FAT32
8) copy all my apps back and reinstalling where appropriate.
9) I need a beer... Mental note - Do not use ie 5.5 - Cheers Gurm!

Paddy
16th November 2000, 12:54
okey! UDMA is enabled on my DVD drive! Cheers lads.

er.. if anyone knows the correct Temp range for a T'bird 1GHz id appreciate them sharing it with me http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif


cheers again

Pace
16th November 2000, 13:13
Oh well - I was coming back with more complete help! You won't be needing that now! And would you be so kind as to share the location of HTFS for Win9x?

Thanks,

Paul.

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Pace
16th November 2000, 13:15
Oops, hehe http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/redface.gif

Well if there is a HT filing system for Win9x I'd certainly like to know what it is - I meant NTFS (just kind of got crossed with HPFS http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif)

Paul.

Pace
16th November 2000, 13:16
Just a thought...HT = HyperText!

A Hypertext filing system? Maybe Microsoft will stick that in IE7.23 http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

(sorry for hijacking/spamming/redirecting this thread Paddy http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif)

Paul.

Pace
16th November 2000, 17:17
Are you using ACPI and is it working ok?

Paul.

DentyCracker
16th November 2000, 18:16
55 seems high
47 is not too bad
40 is good
for a 1GHz T'Bird
47 after playing Quake I could live with. (If I played quake)

Paddy
17th November 2000, 00:51
Cheers Paul / Denty!

Back to the SCSI CDRW.

I can read audio CDs fine.
I can browse CDS fine
I can execute some small files.
Anything over around 400K returns a crc/checksum error.

Everything is terminated properly.
Everything has the latest drivers and BIOS revisions.

Could this be due to a faulty cable? I have no spares to hotswap...

Paddy
17th November 2000, 00:56
Denty:

The ASUS probe monitoring software that comes with the mobo can alert you if the temp of the chip gets too high. I cant set this alarm to anything lower than 64'C.

Therefore i would infer that this temp is fine.......

Gurm
17th November 2000, 07:02
Paddy,

I think the "auto-termination" on the SCSI card has gotten confused. Either that or you have a passive terminator on the drive and the drive/card combo requires active termination.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Paddy
17th November 2000, 10:20
er.. sorry mate?

I can set the termination on the card to:
automatic
high on/low on
high off/low on
high off/low off ect...

The cdrw and drive just have a jumper marked 'term'.

is that any use?

Gurm
17th November 2000, 12:45
Look up the drive specs and see if it needs active termination. If so, that's your problem - you'll need an internal active terminator, or a terminated cable.

If not... then the card is just confused, and you'll have to play with the lo/hi etc. options until it works.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Paddy
17th November 2000, 14:48
Ok Gurm (or anyone else!)

I have checked the Plextor website and found that all i need to do is place a jumper on the right place. Done!

I will ignore the adaptor for now.

Here (http://www.storage.ibm.com/techsup/hddtech/dnes/dnesjum.htm) is the website for the jumper settings for my SCSI drive. I have the 68 Pin model and as pin 6 on J4 is labled 'S/E' i take it that i have the multimode model.

I have tried throwing jumpers everywhere according to the website - but i dont get it.
I also have the 'Auxiliary Connector' that it referes to.

As i cant find anything labled 'termination' does this suggest that i need to actively terminate the device (and that means what exactly?)

Please could someone tell me where to put the jumpers.


I'll be your best friend!


(sorry)

Paddy

ayoub_ibrahim
17th November 2000, 15:18
Paddy,not sure if this will help( I have a LVD Ultra 160 hdd 68 pins with adaptec controller) but the LVD cable has a terminator at the end of the cable itself with no termination on the drive! the manual implies that this is the arrangement for ultra 160/ultra 2 scsi devices. can't say if matters are different with your controller & hdd!

Paddy
17th November 2000, 17:09
Gurm:

If i disconnect the SCSi disk from the adaptor and enable auto-termination the cDRW works fine. Therefore i assume there is a problem with termination.

The fact that the CDRW is now working suggests that its termination is fine.

Where do you think the problem is?

xortam
17th November 2000, 17:10
Paddy ... Your 68 pin model (which apparently is the only one with an auxiliary connector) needs to be separately terminated: at a later point on the cable, after the drives. Note under the Auxiliary connector diagram, it states that "LVD/SE Multi-mode model has no terminator". Also, note under "Jumper options" ...

Enable SCSI terminator/Force SE mode (Position #6 on J-4)


SE model
Enable SCSI terminator
If the jumper is installed, the internal SCSI active terminator on the drive works.

LVD/SE Multi-mode model
Force SE mode
If the jumper is installed, the drive is forced to work as Single-End mode drive.


UW devices normally need active termination vs. passive termination. Active terminators are much more expensive and use power from the SCSI bus to terminate the signals (the external ones normally have an LED indicating the bus is powered).

P.S. Active termination as defined on Adaptec web site:



ACTIVE TERMINATION:
An active terminator actually has one or more voltage regulators to produce the termination voltage, rather than using resistor voltage dividers.
This is a passive terminator:

TERMPWR ------/\/\/\/------+------/\/\/\/----- GND
|
|
SCSI signal

Notice that the termination voltage is varies with the voltage on the TERMPWR line. One voltage divider (two resistors) is used for each SCSIsignal.

An active terminator looks more like this (supply filter caps omitted):

+-----------+
TERMPWR ----| in out |----+-----/\/\/\/-----SCSI signal
| gnd | |
+-----------+ |
| +-----/\/\/\/-----SCSI signal
| |
GND --------------+ |
+-----/\/\/\/-----SCSI signal
|
etc.

Assuming that the TERMPWR voltage doesn't drop below the desired termination voltage (plus the regulator's minimum drop), the SCSI signals will always be terminated to the correct voltage level.


[This message has been edited by xortam (edited 18 November 2000).]

Gurm
17th November 2000, 19:54
Paddy,

What this means (practical upshot) is that you need to scurry out to your local Best Buy or CompUSA or whatever they have where you live, and get an active terminator. It'll run you about $30 (US). Then slap it on a connecter AFTER the drive, and you're good to go.

I hadn't realized that your drive model had no termination, otherwise we could have fixed you up right quick.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Paddy
18th November 2000, 10:05
My dad has the same setup (adaptor, uw disk and w cdrw) however his works fine with no active termination. The only difference is that his 68pin cable has two ports on it where as mine has three.

Does that mean that his cable has a terminator on it? (if so i'll swap 'em round...)

xortam
18th November 2000, 10:59
The internal active terminator looks like a small PCB attached at the very end of the ribbon cable. Improperly terminated SCSI busses may or may not show up as problems depending on the devices attached and the physical location of that device on the bus; also those problems may be intermittent. Your father's system may be properly terminated of he may just be getting away with an improperly terminated bus. Don't rely on getting away with an improperly terminated bus.

I take it on your system that you've got the Plextor internal CD-RW connected to the 50-pin internal connector of your SCSI card and your IBM HD connected to the 68-pin internal connector of your SCSI card?! In this case, the auto-termination of your SCSI card (which resides in the middle of your SCSI bus) would be disabled and you need to terminate the CD-RW and your HD. The CD-RW has its own termination and you've verified that its set. The HD doesn't have termination so you need to add a active terminator to the end of its bus segment (after the drive). Just to confuse things a bit more http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif ... normally its discouraged to add cable and terminator after the last device in a chain because it can act as an antenna and introduce noise onto the bus. I would imagine that's not a problem in this case because a) its an internal ribbon cable, and b) you'll be using an active terminator.