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  • Et tu, Germany?

    After the sour German bond sale the other day, anyone have comments?

    NY Times....

    Banks Build Contingency for Breakup of the Euro

    PARIS — For the growing chorus of observers who fear that a breakup of the euro zone might be at hand, Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany has a pointed rebuke: It’s never going to happen.

    But some banks are no longer so sure, especially as the sovereign debt crisis threatened to ensnare Germany itself this week, when investors began to question the nation’s stature as Europe’s main pillar of stability.

    On Friday, Standard & Poor’s downgraded Belgium’s credit standing to AA from AA+, saying it might not be able to cut its towering debt load any time soon. Ratings agencies this week cautioned that France could lose its AAA rating if the crisis grew. On Thursday, agencies lowered the ratings of Portugal and Hungary to junk.

    While European leaders still say there is no need to draw up a Plan B, some of the world’s biggest banks, and their supervisors, are doing just that.

    “We cannot be, and are not, complacent on this front,” Andrew Bailey, a regulator at Britain’s Financial Services Authority, said this week. “We must not ignore the prospect of a disorderly departure of some countries from the euro zone,” he said.

    Banks including Merrill Lynch, Barclays Capital and Nomura issued a cascade of reports this week examining the likelihood of a breakup of the euro zone. “The euro zone financial crisis has entered a far more dangerous phase,” analysts at Nomura wrote on Friday. Unless the European Central Bank steps in to help where politicians have failed, “a euro breakup now appears probable rather than possible,” the bank said.

    Major British financial institutions, like the Royal Bank of Scotland, are drawing up contingency plans in case the unthinkable veers toward reality, bank supervisors said Thursday. United States regulators have been pushing American banks like Citigroup and others to reduce their exposure to the euro zone. In Asia, authorities in Hong Kong have stepped up their monitoring of the international exposure of foreign and local banks in light of the European crisis.

    But banks in big euro zone countries that have only recently been infected by the crisis do not seem to be nearly as flustered.

    Banks in France and Italy in particular are not creating backup plans, bankers say, for the simple reason that they have concluded it is impossible for the euro to break up. Although banks like BNP Paribas, Société Générale, UniCredit and others recently dumped tens of billions of euros worth of European sovereign debt, the thinking is that there is little reason to do more.

    “While in the United States there is clearly a view that Europe can break up, here, we believe Europe must remain as it is,” said one French banker, summing up the thinking at French banks. “So no one is saying, ‘We need a fallback,’ ” said the banker, who was not authorized to speak publicly.

    When Intesa Sanpaolo, Italy’s second-largest bank, evaluated different situations in preparation for its 2011-13 strategic plan last March, none were based on the possible breakup of the euro, and “even though the situation has evolved, we haven’t revised our scenario to take that into consideration,” said Andrea Beltratti, chairman of the bank’s management board.

    Mr. Beltratti said that banks would be the first bellwether of trouble in the case of growing jitters about the euro, and that Intesa Sanpaolo had been “very careful” from the point of view of liquidity and capital. In late spring, the bank raised its capital by five billion euros, one of the largest increases in Europe.

    Mr. Beltratti said that Italy, like the European Union, could adopt a series of policy measures that could keep the breakup of the euro at bay. “I certainly felt more confident a few months ago, but still feel optimistic,” he said.

    European leaders this week said they were more determined than ever to keep the single currency alive — especially with major elections looming in France next year and in Germany in 2013. If anything, Mrs. Merkel said she would redouble her efforts to push the union toward greater fiscal and political unity.
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    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    Take your last sentence:

    If anything, Mrs. Merkel said she would redouble her efforts to push the union toward greater fiscal and political unity.
    Who has been most violently opposed to the creation of Eurobonds? Why. this same Mrs Merkel! Because it would be unfavourable for Germany (it would be unfavourable for nearly the whole eurozone!). Yet this would be the best way of dealing with the crisis and I've said this for many weeks.

    In the meanwhile, the Swiss National Bank has acquired more Euros to keep the CHF exchange rate favourable than any national bank in the eurozone.

    It's become a crazy world. I foresee that the ECB will need to take some measures that will mean an inflationary burst, as what little confidence is left in the EUR with respect to the USD, JPY, CHF and GBP may diminish. The real paradox is the GBP, as the UK economy is in really dire straits with zero short or medium term hope for recovery.
    Brian (the devil incarnate)

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    • #3
      Belgium last week saw it interest rate increase from 4.7 to 5.8 (approx.), and on Friday S&P degraded the rating with one step. Main argument is the political instability, and the cost of rescuing Dexia Bank. However, it surprises me that analysts are not sure whether or not the interest rate was increasing because of speculation that the rating would be degraded, so it will be interesting to see what happens to the interest rate on Monday.

      (IMO, the political stability is a bit of a non-issue: sure, we don't have a government since the elections in June 2010 (530+ days ago), but the resigning government stays in place and can do things. They filed a budget for 2011 - which was approved, and were set to file one for 2012. Of course, they cannot make long term changes, but now the markets are rushing the negotiators into forming a new government; I think it would have been best to let the negotiations continue at their normal rate: it was slow, but at least they were not pressured and could really work things out)

      Furthermore, on Monday, Belgium is planning to sell bonds (3, 5 and 8 years), and the first indications are that they will be a HUGE success. Which is a bit surprising as Germany had problems selling their bonds recently. According to analysts, this success might be a problem, as it implies that people get money out of their savings accounts in order to buy the bonds, leaving the banks with less money and more vulnerable.

      Things are so interconnected that I think nobody really has a clue on how things are working now...
      Last edited by VJ; 27 November 2011, 01:25.
      pixar
      Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, some American bankers know what's going on - they're borrowing money at the Fed window at nearly 0% then buying T-bonds and making profits on the margin. They aren't issuing debt for crap, but their bottom lines at least look pretty (not that they really are.)
        Dr. Mordrid
        ----------------------------
        An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

        I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Brian Ellis View Post
          Who has been most violently opposed to the creation of Eurobonds? Why. this same Mrs Merkel! Because it would be unfavourable for Germany (it would be unfavourable for nearly the whole eurozone!). Yet this would be the best way of dealing with the crisis
          Why? How? Issuing Eurobonds would stop countries from spending to much and get them to restructure their economy how? I see it primarily as a way not to have to deal with the crisis (or, actually, not right now).

          Only if revenue and expenditure management would be centralised and all would get a decent say with respect to local economic law would I perhaps consider this.
          Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brian Ellis View Post
            Take your last sentence:



            Who has been most violently opposed to the creation of Eurobonds? Why. this same Mrs Merkel! Because it would be unfavourable for Germany (it would be unfavourable for nearly the whole eurozone!). Yet this would be the best way of dealing with the crisis and I've said this for many weeks.

            In the meanwhile, the Swiss National Bank has acquired more Euros to keep the CHF exchange rate favourable than any national bank in the eurozone.

            It's become a crazy world. I foresee that the ECB will need to take some measures that will mean an inflationary burst, as what little confidence is left in the EUR with respect to the USD, JPY, CHF and GBP may diminish. The real paradox is the GBP, as the UK economy is in really dire straits with zero short or medium term hope for recovery.
            I don't think the UK is in any real trouble yet.
            They started the austerity measures in preparation for a problem, and they are well on their way to get them applied.

            France isn't doing much, and that could be a problem.
            Sarko could just walk out of the presidency, and go live wherever with Carla.
            They have made so much money this presidency, he is now made for life, and he has friends placed in all the highest echelons.

            As was stated in another blog, the main problem is that there is no official method for leaving the Euro. If Greece or any other country has to leave the Euro for any reason, it may do it in a fashion that creates hysteria and panic elsewhere, or even a run on banks euro-wide.

            On another note, if said shit does hit the fan, the police and authorities are going to be extremely occupied with rioters etc, that the possibility of a terrorist attack could actually be greater.
            Depends if anyone actually wants to do it anymore, they may as well wait until we finish ourselves off financially
            PC-1 Fractal Design Arc Mini R2, 3800X, Asus B450M-PRO mATX, 2x8GB B-die@3800C16, AMD Vega64, Seasonic 850W Gold, Black Ice Nemesis/Laing DDC/EKWB 240 Loop (VRM>CPU>GPU), Noctua Fans.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by VJ View Post
              Belgium last week saw it interest rate increase from 4.7 to 5.8 (approx.), and on Friday S&P degraded the rating with one step. Main argument is the political instability, and the cost of rescuing Dexia Bank. However, it surprises me that analysts are not sure whether or not the interest rate was increasing because of speculation that the rating would be degraded, so it will be interesting to see what happens to the interest rate on Monday.

              (IMO, the political stability is a bit of a non-issue: sure, we don't have a government since the elections in June 2010 (530+ days ago), but the resigning government stays in place and can do things. They filed a budget for 2011 - which was approved, and were set to file one for 2012. Of course, they cannot make long term changes, but now the markets are rushing the negotiators into forming a new government; I think it would have been best to let the negotiations continue at their normal rate: it was slow, but at least they were not pressured and could really work things out)

              (cut)...
              'normal rate' for Belgian government formation talks to me seems to be: no rate at all. If anything, maybe external pressure increase the rate from 'no progress' to 'some progress'. If Belgian politicians want to convey an image of instability to sovereign bond holders by not being able to reach consensus, them they deserve a triple A rating for their effort.

              Comment


              • #8
                The thing is: the result of the last election made things complicated, and caused for some tough negotiations regarding the (necessary) constitutional reformations that concern the political structure of the country. Due to the quite polarized opinions and election result between Flanders and Walloon, this was bound to be complicated.
                Now, under pressure, they are forced into a government which will not address the fundamental problems, but rather some superficial fix (just like was done all the times before). It is a shame that the pressure is now resulting in yet another superficial fix, rather than something fundamental: the problems are bound to resurface. Furthermore, there is no way that the current government will be able to remain in place for its normal term of 6 years. And when the government resigns, the markets will be the first to jump on the situation. The next elections will for sure result in an even more polarized result, making fundamental changes even more difficult. That is why I regret that the formation was done under pressure.

                (one suggestion was to establish an "emergency government", which has more power than the current "resigning government", and which could handle all the current affairs, while the negotiations regarding the reformation of the state could be done in parallel by different people. This was dismissed very quickly, but I think it could have been good...)
                pixar
                Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

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                • #9
                  Link....

                  Euro Finance Ministers Discuss Radical Ideas to Avert Global Crisis

                  Finance ministers from the euro zone’s 17 member nations have converged on the European Union headquarters in Brussels today in a desperate bid to save their currency and to protect the global economy from a debt-induced financial crisis.

                  The ministers were discussing ideas hitherto unthinkable, now being considered in a moment of utter desperation. Among the previously taboo ideas being mentioned today are: countries ceding fiscal sovereignty to a central authority; some sort of elite group of euro nations that would guarantee one another’s loans but require strong fiscal discipline from anyone seeking membership.

                  German Chancellor Angela Merkel reiterated her support today for changes to Europe’s current treaties in order to create a fiscal union. “Our priority is to have the whole of the euro zone to be placed on a stronger treaty basis,” Merkel said today in Berlin. “This is what we have devoted all of our efforts to; this is what I’m concentrating on in all of the talks with my counterparts.”

                  Merkel acknowledged that changing the treaties won’t be an easy task, as not all of the European Union’s 27 member states “are enthusiastic about it.” However, she dismissed reports that said the 17-nation single-currency bloc might go it alone with a swifter treaty between governments.

                  With the entire global community relying upon Europe’s survival, aggressive action has become a matter of extreme urgency, as euro zone governments have 638 billion euros in past debts coming due in 2012, of which 40% needs to be refinance in the first four months of the year, according to Barclays Capital. Recent debt auctions have seen yields climbing in some of the euro zone’s largest economies, including Italy, where yields shot up Tuesday to above 7%, an unsustainable level on par with rates that forced Greece, Portugal, and Ireland to seek bailouts.
                  >
                  The world is watching Europe, waiting upon a solution. It’s not just the euro that’s at stake. If the euro fails, so too does the 27-nation European Union. Bank lending would freeze, stock markets would likely crash, and Europe’s economies would follow. Nations in the euro-zone would see their economic output decline, though temporarily, by as much as 50%, according to UBS forecasters. That economic meltdown would then spread to the U.S. and Asia, who would find themselves caught up in the credit freeze while their exports to Europe would collapse.
                  Dr. Mordrid
                  ----------------------------
                  An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                  I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A Club of Super Best Friends.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VJ View Post
                      [...]Now, under pressure, they are forced into a government which will not address the fundamental problems, but rather some superficial fix (just like was done all the times before). It is a shame that the pressure is now resulting in yet another superficial fix, rather than something fundamental: the problems are bound to resurface.
                      Given that they have been talking for over 500 days now one should wonder whether a fundamental solution to the issue is feasible at all or at least how much longer it would take. I think it is a lot to ask from creditors to just keep extending credit while you take the time to solve your internal issues.
                      Furthermore, there is no way that the current government will be able to remain in place for its normal term of 6 years. And when the government resigns, the markets will be the first to jump on the situation. The next elections will for sure result in an even more polarized result, making fundamental changes even more difficult. That is why I regret that the formation was done under pressure.
                      Perhaps, perhaps not. If the ew government at least gets its fiscal position in a better shape (e.g. some GDP growth and a small budget surplus) then I would not expect elections to be an issue for the markets.

                      Just to show how 'forgiving' the markets can be, the near finalised negotiations for a new Belgian government caused the 10Y yield to drop from 5.66% on Monday to less than 5% this morning. Too bad the politicians were just a week late.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Umfriend View Post
                        Just to show how 'forgiving' the markets can be, the near finalised negotiations for a new Belgian government caused the 10Y yield to drop from 5.66% on Monday to less than 5% this morning. Too bad the politicians were just a week late.
                        Or alternatively it can be explained as a result of the FED's new USD swaps with foreign central banks

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Umfriend View Post
                          Given that they have been talking for over 500 days now one should wonder whether a fundamental solution to the issue is feasible at all or at least how much longer it would take. I think it is a lot to ask from creditors to just keep extending credit while you take the time to solve your internal issues.
                          True; but that is why we still have the "resigning government" in place, and why I think the idea of putting an emergency government in place was not a bad idea.

                          Originally posted by Umfriend View Post
                          Perhaps, perhaps not. If the ew government at least gets its fiscal position in a better shape (e.g. some GDP growth and a small budget surplus) then I would not expect elections to be an issue for the markets.
                          First problem is that the current budget is mainly built around taxes, and are taking money from the communities (Flemish, Walloon). Second issue is that the reason for the success of the NVA is that fact that many Flemish people feel too much money is flowing from Flanders to Walloon. By having Flanders contribute more to pay the countries debt, this will be presented as another system for transferring money from one region to another (the fact that it was devised by a Walloon politician will also not be good). Add to that that the Flemish winner of the previous elections was not part of those and keeps criticizing it, and you see why I'm quite sure the next elections will yield an even more polarized result.

                          Originally posted by Umfriend View Post
                          Just to show how 'forgiving' the markets can be, the near finalised negotiations for a new Belgian government caused the 10Y yield to drop from 5.66% on Monday to less than 5% this morning. Too bad the politicians were just a week late.
                          I suspect the main reason for the increase was the lack of finalized negotiations, but at the same time I suspect that decrease is more caused by the sales-success of the Belgian bonds. The rates started increasing just before people could sign in to buy them, and when it became clear it was a success, the rate started dropping again.
                          pixar
                          Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

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                          • #14
                            dzeus: it started dropping before that, and Belgium is the only one that is dropping. If that where the cause, most euro countries would start dropping.
                            pixar
                            Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by VJ View Post
                              dzeus: it started dropping before that, and Belgium is the only one that is dropping. If that where the cause, most euro countries would start dropping.
                              The FED had made the decision to reduce the rate on USD swaps last Monday. The rate on sovereign bonds of multiple euro countries has been decreasing since.

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