PDA

View Full Version : HDMI out, HDbaseT in?



Dr Mordrid
1st July 2010, 11:20
Link.... (http://www.dailytech.com/So+Long+HDMI+New+Standard+for+AV+Uses+Ethernet+Cab les/article18902.htm)

http://www.hdbaset.org/


So Long HDMI: New Standard for A/V Uses Ethernet Cables

New standard offers both lower costs, the potential to deliver more information and convenience

LG Electronics, Samsung Electronics, Sony Pictures Entertainment and Valens Semiconductor have been secretly conspiring to kill HDMI. And today they set their plans into motion, introducing a brand new audiovisual standard, HDBaseT (http://www.hdbaset.org/). While that name may sound confusing, before you slap your head, this will not likely introduce a new kind of cable to your house.

Past A/V standards from industry groups have introduced a plethora of connectors (S-Video, HDMI, DisplayPort for example), so that makes this release all the more unusual. Instead of a new connector, it is based on the Cat 5e/6 network cables, commonly referred to as "ethernet cables".

It supports cable lengths up to 328 feet. The cable can pass HD and 3-D video signals, as well as data through an integrated 100MBit Ethernet connection. That data feed should allow for new internet-connected TV services, such as Google TV which delivers advertising-funded services to TV sets.

The standard also has many other advantages. For one, it will help declutter the growing mess of cables in the average household. By repurposing ethernet cables, it should also dramatically lower costs, both for the manufacturer and the consumer.
>

Dr Mordrid
1st July 2010, 16:21
A few notes I neglected to add to the OP

What with almost all new BR players and TV's becoming capable of streaming HD video off the internet the extra connector is going to be there anyhow, all this proposal does is leverage it for more devices. We just bought 2 Sony 3D-BR capable BR decks and one 'net capable LCD TV, and the network port was almost universally available on TV's at little or no price penalty.

Streaming HD and SD video off the net is real now; Netflix having had it for some time and Hulu Plus (http://www.hulu.com/plus/guided_tour) ($9.99/mo) is coming very soon. Our experience with Netfilx streaming has been very good (it uses Microsofts Silverlight 4 instead of Flash). Hulu Plus is passing out limited invitations for testers, but it's coming very soon with both movies and TV shows - both current and archived episodes - due to major studio involvement.

Hulu Plus promises to also stream to wired devices; laptops, iPad, iPhone, etc. with wired BR players getting new firmware containing a plugin to run the service with. We've had numerous new service plugins added to our Sony decks since we got them, with the total now approaching 30 and including YouTube, Amazon's Video on Demand etc. etc. Even Fear.net.

Cable and satellite are in big trouble IMO.

TransformX
2nd July 2010, 00:45
One universal connector at last? :up::up:

Evildead666
2nd July 2010, 06:40
One universal connector at last? :up::up:

To rule them all !!!!!
;)

cjolley
2nd July 2010, 07:30
So, I wonder how Monster and companies thike that are going to justify 6' cat5 cables for > $70?
I'm sure we we are about to see some really creative ad copy. :up:

Tjalfe
2nd July 2010, 08:34
now we just need un capped internet connections to allow people to stream from the net, without paying through the nose :(

Elie
2nd July 2010, 13:14
Monster can still profit big from this by advertising shielded CAT 6 twisted pair cables for major $$$
They can claim their cables are better because...

1-Well shielded
2-Gold plated RJ45 plugs
3-More twists to reduce attenuation and cross talk
4-Silver plated cables

Etc. etc. etc.

cjolley
2nd July 2010, 13:25
dsfsdkl;fsdf
Monster can still profit big from this by advertising shielded CAT 6 twisted pair cables for major $$$
They can claim their cables are better because...

...

Etc. etc. etc.

Don't forget the Pixie Dust. :ermm:

Dr Mordrid
6th July 2010, 19:59
YouTube video about the HDBaseT tech....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfbiILDmw-I

Note he says only 30W of power can be transferred over the system. In the spec released last week it's now up to 100W of power.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/hdmi-dead-hdbaset

Tjalfe
7th July 2010, 07:10
It converges full uncompressed HD video, audio, 100BaseT Ethernet, high power over cable and various control signals through a single 100m/328ft CAT5e/6 LAN cable
They also claims 10.2Gbps, scalable to 20Gbps.. how are they going to squeeze 10Gb onto 100Meters of Cat5e?.. Ethernet on the same cables can't :confused:

Elie
7th July 2010, 10:13
That's when they will switch to fiber via Toslink connector :)

Jammrock
7th July 2010, 12:29
They also claims 10.2Gbps, scalable to 20Gbps.. how are they going to squeeze 10Gb onto 100Meters of Cat5e?.. Ethernet on the same cables can't :confused:

CAT 6a is rated to 10 Gbps up to 55 m.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable#Category_6a

CAT 7a is rated to 40 Gbps at 50 m and 100 Gbps at 15 m. It's not really available though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_7_cable

My guess is the HDbaseT spec will actually require a 6a or 7a grade cable and device connector. Pushing that on 5e over a few meters I don't see possible. Not without some serious compression to reduce actual bandwidth.

Dr Mordrid
7th July 2010, 12:49
No CAT7 necessary as. It doesn't use packets but continuous transmission. What I was worried about was transferring 100w of power for remote devices until I looked up the CAT5e spec and found that with 24 AWG it could carry .557 amp/line, and there are 8. Multiplex the data on those same lines akin to IP-over-power lines and there you are, and some CAT5e uses 22 AWG.

degrub
7th July 2010, 22:13
if i read it right, they were using 100mbit - so maybe quadrature (i forget the term) encoding of the signal over the low frequency waveform ?

paulw
7th July 2010, 23:59
Just wait until Hollyweird DRMs the life out of this technology. Want to watch 2 devices from the same source at the same time ?? No way.. You have to buy two copies of it..

Tjalfe
8th July 2010, 07:05
if i read it right, they were using 100mbit - so maybe quadrature (i forget the term) encoding of the signal over the low frequency waveform ?

QAM, but probably with a large constallation. They use something like 256QAM downstream on cable modems and 64QAM up.
I guess it could give enough bandwidth, but the video cables have to be kept separate from your Ethernet network to not cause issues, I am thinking.

degrub
8th July 2010, 10:10
i think if it is twisted pair, then any imposed field effects would implicitly cancel.

Dr Mordrid
12th July 2010, 18:10
A comparison table courtesy of PhysOrg.com (http://www.physorg.com/news197525576.html)

http://digitalvideo.8m.net/hdbaset/hdbaset800.jpg