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  • Chrysler - Fiat alliance....

    ....with the Ford - Fiat alliance (Ford being the majority partner) in the background. Ford is the only automaker to turn down TARP funds, stating it has enough money reserves to endure the recession, and you get the feeling they didn't want the increased govt. interference that would entail.

    For those who don't know, mainly in the US, Fiat SpA is a global conglomerate that has its fingers in a lot of pies other than cars.



    From Automotive News...

    Fiat confirms plan to acquire 35% stake in Chrysler

    Non-binding agreement has UAW support

    Luca Ciferri Automotive News

    TURIN, ITALY -- Fiat S.p.A. and Chrysler LLC confirmed today that the Italian company intends to acquire an initial 35 percent stake in the U.S. carmaker.

    The deal will give Fiat the scale it needs to survive, while Chrysler can expand its product portfolio to include small, less-polluting cars.

    Chrysler said the deal, which involves no cash investment, formed a key component of plans to secure its future, and would grant it access to Fiat's more fuel-efficient vehicle platforms, engines and transmissions.
    The UAW supports the deal.

    Automotive News Europe first reported the pending transaction on Monday.

    According to press reports, Fiat will have an option to boost its stake to 55 percent at a later date.

    Fiat vice-chairman John Elkann told reporters today that the Italian group could increase its Chrysler stake from 35 percent.

    "We can raise that," Elkann said. "It's a good deal ... we have already said that it's important to have consolidation in the auto sector," he added.

    In a joint statement, Fiat, Chrysler and Chrysler's majority shareholder Cerberus Capital Management L.P, said they have signed "a non-binding term sheet to establish a global strategic alliance."

    The pact "would provide Chrysler with access to competitive, fuel-efficient vehicle platforms, powertrains, and components to be produced at Chrysler manufacturing sites," the companies said.

    Under the terms of the deal, Fiat would make available its distribution network in key growth markets. "Substantial cost savings opportunities" would be available to the alliance, the companies said.

    Optimize global supplier base

    The carmakers said a tie-up would allow them to take advantage of each other's other's distribution networks. They also said there would be opportunities" to optimize fully their respective manufacturing footprint and global supplier base."

    The companies said Fiat would take "an initial 35 percent equity interest" in Chrysler, but it would not make a cash investment or commit funding to Chrysler.

    Fiat Group CEO Sergio Marchionne said the alliance "confirms Fiat and Chrysler commitment and determination to continue to play a significant role" in the global auto industry.

    Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli says the alliance "creates the potential for a powerful, new global competitor." He added that it offered Chrysler "a number of strategic benefits, including access to products that complement our current portfolio; a distribution network outside North America; and cost savings in design, engineering, manufacturing, purchasing and sales and marketing."

    Nardelli also said the partnership would "provide a return on investment for the American taxpayer by securing the long-term viability of Chrysler brands in the marketplace, sustaining future product and technology development for our country and building renewed consumer confidence, while preserving American jobs."

    Ron Gettelfinger, president of the UAW, said: "This is great news for the UAW Chrysler team and we look forward to supporting and working with them to ensure Chrysler's long-term viability."

    A Daimler spokesman declined to comment on prospects for a combination of Fiat and Chrysler other than to say: "We welcome any initiative that serves to stabilize the situation at Chrysler and preserve jobs at the company."

    Daimler is seeking to sell its 19.9 percent stake in Chrysler.
    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 20 January 2009, 09:27.
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

  • #2
    Fiat has also not been doing so well in the past decade, although it has large ties with Italian government who probably wouldn't want Fiat to go down (though EU limits their options). They did make a bit of a comeback with the 500 (shares platform with new Ford Ka) and they have great diesel engines (1.8 and 2.4 JTD). Fiat is a lot more than Fiat, it's Alpha Romeo, Lancia, Ferrari, Masseratti, basically all Italian automakers except for Lamborghini.

    Chrysler isn't doing so well arround here, except for PT Cruiser but that's a niche car.

    Comment


    • #3
      But a very good selling 'niche'.

      Any reaction over there to their coming ENVI models - E-REV's like Volt based on the Caravan etc., a Tesla-like EV and an electric Jeep?
      Dr. Mordrid
      ----------------------------
      An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

      I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by UtwigMU View Post
        Fiat has also not been doing so well in the past decade, although it has large ties with Italian government who probably wouldn't want Fiat to go down (though EU limits their options). They did make a bit of a comeback with the 500 (shares platform with new Ford Ka) and they have great diesel engines (1.8 and 2.4 JTD). Fiat is a lot more than Fiat, it's Alpha Romeo, Lancia, Ferrari, Masseratti, basically all Italian automakers except for Lamborghini.

        Chrysler isn't doing so well arround here, except for PT Cruiser but that's a niche car.

        I agree here, it will be a huge mistake for Fiat to buy shares in Chrysler unless it's for the sole purpose on selling fiats here in North America under the Chrysler name or something.

        But history shows that those companies who have bought into Chrysler ended up selling shortly after.

        Big mistake I tell you! Tsk tsk tsk

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Elie View Post
          I agree here, it will be a huge mistake for Fiat to buy shares in Chrysler unless it's for the sole purpose on selling fiats here in North America under the Chrysler name or something.

          But history shows that those companies who have bought into Chrysler ended up selling shortly after.

          Big mistake I tell you! Tsk tsk tsk
          You have to remember that Fiat isn't actually paying any money for the 35% share of Chrysler.
          The payment is Fiat engine technology and platforms.
          Laptops: ASUS G750JM: Intel Core i7 4700HQ, 8GB RAM (DDR3-1600), Nvidia GTX 860M, 1 x Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD, 1 x WD 750 GB HDD, 17,3" FHD Screen, Windows 8.1 64-bit.
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          • #6
            Since Chrysler is deep into development of a series of E-REV (like Volt) and electric vehicles under the ENVI brand starting next year, and my guess is that at the least what they want from Fiat is two small engines, one gas and the other diesel, for the range extender (generator drive). Mules are already on the road.



            For Elie: the Dodge Circuit pure EV sports car is rated at a 0-60 of 5 seconds with a 200 mile range and 120 mph top end using a 200 kW (268 hp) electric motor. IIRC the bodywork is based on the Lotus Europa SE.

            Batteries: quite likely A123 Systems/Continental AG who very soon will start building a $2 billion battery plant in SE Michigan close to Chrysler facilities. Note in the video that the battery is T shaped like Volts. Looks like a common form factor is evolving.

            Page + video of the new vehicles & graphics of internals....

            After that it'll be whole vehicle platforms for sale in their dealerships, including higher end models.

            ENVI line....
            Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 21 January 2009, 15:03.
            Dr. Mordrid
            ----------------------------
            An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

            I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

            Comment


            • #7
              The blind leading the blind. Not the first time that Chrysler have dealt with Europeans in survival difficulties. In the 1960s, they did a deal with the now-Rootes Group (Hillman, Humber, Singer and Sunbeam cars). When C staggered under the 1970s recession, they forced the closure of Rootes which also started to make losses. Except for 2008, Fiat, under the Agnelli family, had a long history of loss-making rust buckets. You see few Fiats outside of Italy and the E. block countries.

              I'm not surprised Mercedes-Daimler want to divest themselves of Chrysler. I would, too! The only major auto stock I would keep would be Toyota, Honda, VW and Kia.
              Brian (the devil incarnate)

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              • #8
                Nearly all european car makers have small efficient engines.
                I think fiat has a three-cylinder diesel/turbdiesel which is highly economical, and which would be even better if run at constant speed for charging/powering an electric drivetrain.

                Diesel-electric hybrids are the way to go until we can have hydrogen hybrids, or pure hydrogen cars...
                PC-1 Fractal Design Arc Mini R2, 3800X, Asus B450M-PRO mATX, 2x8GB B-die@3800C16, AMD Vega64, Seasonic 850W Gold, Black Ice Nemesis/Laing DDC/EKWB 240 Loop (VRM>CPU>GPU), Noctua Fans.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
                  ...
                  Any reaction over there to their coming ENVI models - E-REV's like Volt based on the Caravan etc., a Tesla-like EV and an electric Jeep?

                  Not sure how it is in neighbouring countries, but here they're totally ignored, hybrids that came out earlier - also; the numbers just totally don't add up: slightly lower fuel consumption for waaaay higher price of the vehicle. Essentially they're acceptable only to people who treat cars as status symbols, and not many of those from this price range would choose a hybrid...

                  I think I could count the times I've seen a Prius (most characteristic/most easily recogniseable) on the fingers of one hand...and only in one large city.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
                    But a very good selling 'niche'.
                    Not at all, here. The PT Cruiser is quite noticeable, but still I've only seen very few.

                    [/QUOTE]Any reaction over there to their coming ENVI models - E-REV's like Volt based on the Caravan etc., a Tesla-like EV and an electric Jeep?[/QUOTE]

                    None at all. And looking at the picture, I can see why: SUVs and large ugly caravan are niche markets here, the sports car is ugly and neither from germany nor italy or at least the UK (which would have limited it to a niche within a niche, at least), and the 200C isn't from a german premium marque.

                    And they probably have fuel economy almost on par with a Turbodiesel.
                    There's an Opera in my macbook.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evildead666 View Post
                      Diesel-electric hybrids are the way to go until we can have hydrogen hybrids, or pure hydrogen cars...
                      You will have a very long wait, then. Hydrogen is no longer in fashion a) because the well-to-wheels efficiency is much lower than even that of a gas-guzzler and is thus more CO2-emitting and b) the promises of the fuel-cell have not been realised.

                      I attended the 2002 Earth Technologies Forum in Washington DC. One of the Plenary Sessions speakers was Byron McCormick, Executive Director of General Motors. He extolled the virtues of the hydrogen car and he appeared to firmly believe that it would be mainstream by 2010. He revealed some of the design details, with the fuel cell itself doubling as a flat chassis. I've just read through my report on his presentation and note "However, the whole idea of the introduction of such vehicles depends on the implementation of a suitable fuel distribution infrastructure, which will be very costly." from what he said.

                      The Syrota report in France describes hydrogen to drive cars as utopian. It expands this theme over five pages and I must admit that their arguments make sound sense at least in the medium term (up to 2030). It also cites the cost of the fuel distribution infrastructure as a major obstacle, the same as above, but also the cost and capacity of production for the fuel cells themselves, amongst a number of other unresolved problems.
                      Brian (the devil incarnate)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Then maybe compressed air cars were the way to go...?
                        There must be a way to rid ourselves of the oil barrel....
                        Electric cars are probably the best option, its just the effort needed to make the batteries, that don't last the lifetime of the car...

                        We'll get there eventually, lets just hope its before the end of the world lol...
                        its true that hydrogen distribution means updating the whole infrastructure, but i'd put it to the oil companies involved who have made obscene profits for many years, that this was their job, and they didn't look to the future enough instead of spending spending....

                        This will take as long as it takes for all the taxpayers to pay for it all, thats why it will take so long....
                        We are seen by the government as little bags of money they can dip into. Thats all..."Taxpayers" "Contribuables"...whatever...
                        PC-1 Fractal Design Arc Mini R2, 3800X, Asus B450M-PRO mATX, 2x8GB B-die@3800C16, AMD Vega64, Seasonic 850W Gold, Black Ice Nemesis/Laing DDC/EKWB 240 Loop (VRM>CPU>GPU), Noctua Fans.
                        Nas : i3/itx/2x4GB/8x4TB BTRFS/Raid6 (7 + Hotspare) Xpenology
                        +++ : FSP Nano 800VA (Pi's+switch) + 1600VA (PC-1+Nas)

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                        • #13
                          Compressed air, never! The overall efficiency is much worse than even IC engines. Most of the energy used in compressing the air is lost as heat and the autonomy would be tiny.
                          Brian (the devil incarnate)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If they could make one to run on HOT air, my mother-in-law could power a fleet on her own
                            Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own lunar space lander! With blackjack aaaaannd Hookers! Actually, forget the space lander, and the blackjack. Ahhhh forget the whole thing!

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                            • #15
                              Updated info....

                              New partnership with Chrysler will speed up Fiat's invasion of American streets

                              Amid tough financial times, Chrysler has turned to European automaker Fiat for a boost. Fiat is alternatively known for both its fuel-efficient compact cars and for its sports legacy, with Ferrari, Maserati, and Alfa Romeo being among its subsidiaries. In exchange for its help, Chrysler is giving away a 35 percent ownership stake to Fiat.

                              This is good news for the American consumer, as it means some great new vehicles will soon be coming to the States. Fiat leaked news to several outlets that it plans to bring seven models initially to the U.S. Four will be rebranded as Chrysler entries, while the other three will be sold as Fiat's or Alfa Romeos, likely through Chrysler dealerships and distribution networks.

                              Leading the way is the Fiat 500, a fuel-sipping compact car with cool looks. Next up is another A segment model based on the Fiat Panda, a 5-door hatchback compact which gets terrific fuel economy. This model will likely be branded as a Chrysler or Dodge. No word on if the sporty Abarth variant will be coming, but it seems likely.

                              The Fiat 500 will be produced primarily at Chrysler's Toluca, Mexico plant, which currently makes the Dodge Journey and the soon-to-be-gone PT Cruiser. Other Chrysler plants are also expected to be used by Fiat.

                              In the B segment, the Fiat Grande Punto and the Alfa Romeo MiTo will be coming. Both small vehicles should bring sporty performance to the table. Chrysler may also gain access to Fiat's 1.4- and 1.8-liter four-cylinder direct-injection engines. Sources indicate that Chrysler is interested chiefly in the 1.4-liter variant, which it could possibly produce at its Dundee, Michigan plant as a turbocharged model.

                              Chrysler may also be getting additional mid-size models from Fiat as replacements for the Caliber/Compass and Sebring/Avenger. These models may be built on Fiat's C-Evo platform which will be first utilized in the Alfa Romeo 147 replacement, currently codenamed project 940. This replacement may be brought directly to the states.

                              Some perks are coming Chrysler's way in addition to the possibly improved brand image. Chrysler's V6 Phoenix engine will be licensed for use in upcoming Fiat models. And Fiat will distribute Chrysler trucks in South America, where it has a stronger presence.

                              Fiat 500 (Source: AutoBlog)

                              Fiat Panda (Source: AutoBlog)

                              Fiat Grande Punto (Source: AutoBlog)

                              Alfa Romeo MiTo (Source: AutoBlog)
                              Dr. Mordrid
                              ----------------------------
                              An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                              I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

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