Browns Gas?

[Fat Tone]

Looking for a balanced view here.

My father-in-law, bless him, is 74 and active. He has a sharp brain but does tend to live in the long-distant past. Still working a few days a week. He has a Citroen C5, which has always given him terrible mileage (Diesel, driving around London and the 'burbs). He's planning on using christmas money to buy the kit to convert the C5 to use Browns Gas, hoping to significantly improve his economy.

The net is full of diverse opinions on this. I don't want to see him knacker his car, which after all he needs for his livelyhood.

Good/bad idea?

Ta,

T.

[Nowhere]

Browns gas? First heard of it, is it what's under those links?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen#Automotive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car#Electrolysis

Definatelly looks a scam for the gullible...

PS. IMHO it will be hard for him to get better mileage/efficiency in any car; not only because of where he drives...I've seen too many old drivers with sub-optimal driving habits (resulting both from bad driving per se as well as denying to acknowledge the differences between cars of the past and the cars of today (heck, some years ago I was banned from driving family car (new/relatively high power engine/front wheel drive) because of "unsafe" driving (reducing gear before potentially problematic road sections, not after them) and skewed views about reliability of modern batteries and lights (I preferred to have them on 24/7, even before this was made mandatory here))

Maybe some hybrid with high level of regenerative breaking and capability to disengage/turn off engine would be much more economical in his case...

[Fat Tone]

That's the stuff, and this is the most apt bit:

Hydrogen as a supplement
In addition to claims of cars that run exclusively on water, there have also been claims that burning hydrogen or oxyhydrogen in addition to petrol or diesel fuel increases mileage. Around 1970, Yull Brown developed technology which allegedly allows cars to burn fuel more efficiently while improving emissions. In Brown's design, a hydrogen oxygen mixture (so-called "Brown's Gas") is generated by the electrolysis of water, and then fed into the engine through the air intake system. Whether the system actually improves emissions or fuel efficiency is debated. Similarly, Hydrogen Technology Applications claims to be able increase fuel efficiency by bubbling "Aquyen" into the fuel tank.

A number of websites exist promoting the use of oxyhydrogen (often called "HHO"), selling plans for do-it-yourself electrolysers or entire kits with the promise of large improvements in fuel efficiency. According to a spokesman for the American Automobile Association, "All of these devices look like they could probably work for you, but let me tell you they don't."

I guess if he wants to spend a small amount of money on an experiment supplementing the diesel, and isn't going to break the car in the process, then no harm done.

[Nowhere]

More accurate would be calling it a waste of money and resources (also natural), not an experiment.

[Brian Ellis]

In my opinion a very bad idea and very dangerous, unless he knows exactly what he is doing. Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okLOv5g2BVQ&NR=1 and read all the comments. These examples are extremely small scale: to provide HHO gas to run a car, you need to up the scale a thousandfold, remembering the results are the same if the H2 is anywhere between 4% and 94%. BOOM!

OK, practicalities. What is he hoping to gain? Lower fuel costs. He would be better off going round all the local restaurants and offering to take away their used chip oil; he would have to process it, but that is not difficult and it is safe, if a little messy. In winter, he could add 10% chip oil to his tank at the same time as he filled up with regular diesel fuel (so that it mixed). In summer, he could add 25%, and that would be a real economy.
This would also provide lower fossil carbon emissions, which Brown's gas probably wouldn't, as he would have to use mostly coal-fired electricity.

Then consider the risk of an accident. What would happen if someone rear-ended his car and the gas tank burst? I suspect that it would provide a short-cut to Kingdom Come, along with many people nearby. Worst case scenario would make the Omagh bomb look like a kid's toy.

IMH and considered O, not at all a good idea. What about insurance premiums? Overall, as he appears to have largely urban mileage, his best bet is to drive his car to the nearest Toyota dealer and trade it in for a Prius. Half the fuel consumption and carbon emissions, cheaper tax, insurance and free entry into the congestion zone, with no extra danger to himself or others.

What do you call a C5 that is flashed by a speed camera? A Citroen pressé!

[az]

Please mail dan@dansdata.com this question, and you will get a very honest and very good answer on it (if he finds time to answer).

[Gurm]

Grease-kitting the car (converting it to run on vegetable oil) is much more economical and actually provides tangible benefit.

H2 or OH kits are dangerous, and a waste of money since they simply don't work.

[Dr Mordrid]

Amen.