Announcement

**cirrus** · 11 October 1999, 00:02

Leadtek has announced a DDR version of GeForce. But still buy MAX.

--
Arto

**Marco** · 11 October 1999, 12:30

Hi NoClue !
Du bist also aus der schönen Schweitz! Da kann man ja auch mal in Ausländisch schreiben.Ich empfehle Dir die G400 "not maxed" zu nehmen denn die performance ist gut und als bulkversion kostet die nicht viel.So ca.350.- DM. Wenn Du interresiert bist an detaillierten performancetestergebnissen mlinke@gmx.de

------------------
Celeron 300A@450
Asus P2B,G400 SH 32MB
128MB Cas2 PC100

**NoClue** · 11 October 1999, 21:15

Hallo Marco

Ach hier gibts nicht nur Amis?
Schön mal einen Schweizer hier zu treffen...woher bist du denn?

Wegen der G400, zu spät, hab mir ne Diamon Viper770 Ultra gekauft

greetings
NoClue

**Mark F** · 11 October 1999, 21:58

Ausländisch...Amis...Hey I resemble those remarks

Much luck with the Viper, the G400 ("not maxed") looks viel shoner (no umlaut on AMI keyboard)

Mark Franzblau
(Der blaue Franz)

------------------
OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD

[This message has been edited by Mark F (edited 10-12-1999).]

**tish beta2** · 13 October 1999, 14:33

I would not suggest you to buy a G400. It requires a strong CPU to do something all other cards does in hardware. I'm not sure exactly what this is (I read it somewhere, I'll find it), but even a G400 vanilla needs a good P3 500 mhz. And, with the new TurboGL, you need SIMDs in your CPU to really get the G400 maxed out. simds is K7s 3d Now! and P3s SSE.

Also, there exists no win2k drivers, not even a Beta (probably an Aplha prototype I belive). This is bad news if you plan to upgrade/multiboot with win2k when it gets released in 4-5 weeks.

I have a dual P3-500 setup and the Max. I'm afraid we might have to go through a couple of months with crappy win2K beta ICD's like the ICD NT 4.0 currently got

the TNT2/Ultra got a 100% 9x/NT/2K ICD performer.

I'll try not to generalize this, but I've had several problems with the win9x G400 drivers that I've only been able to fix if I re-installed win98. And I've done this three times this week

It may depend on what I do, and what hardware I have, but I only installed a couple of games! Then again, I haven't heard about so many others having that amount of problems.

Thanks + Best Regards
Fish

**motub** · 13 October 1999, 19:58

OK, TishFish, let us be reasonable together, then...

I recognize that you are having some severe and unpleasant problems with your MAX, which you feel could be resolved by improved drivers. I can't and won't dispute you about that. I do, however, feel that your comment is unjustly harsh and unnecessarily confusing.

NoClue has in no way indicated that s/he is the type of user you are, in fact, we could all benefit if NoClue would be much more specific about the use s/he puts his/her system to. [Yes, NoClue, that is a broad hint. Please tell us more about what you expect to do with your system, video cards become more use-dependent by the day.]

So it seems a bit unjust to say "Don't buy a G400" because of an issue that may not even be relevant. As this comment also seems unfair:

I would not suggest you to buy a G400. It requires a strong CPU...even a G400 vanilla needs a good P3 500 mhz.

The G400 has many benefits that do not depend on the CPU, such as EMBM, Dual-Head and extraordinary 2D quality. The issue is that for certain types of 3D applications a high-end CPU is highly recommended to show the G400 to advantage, but it's not as if the sh*t won't run, f'godsakes!!

Now, about this driver thing...

You say, "I'm afraid we might have to go through a couple of months with crappy win2K beta ICD's like the ICD NT 4.0 currently got"

Do you have some type of delusion that if NoClue got a GeForce, the situation would be different? We are talking about newly-introduced hardware, running on newly-introduced software.. and Microsoft software, at that?? And you expect that somehow only "incompetent" Matrox is going to have buggy drivers for the first couple of months.. and likely longer?? I don't know what magic mushrooms you must eat to reach that little alternate universe, but ship me some, please...!

And then, to say that the TNT/TNT2 drivers being rock-solid is some kind of indictment of the fact that Matrox's are not (yet)...! Do you have any idea how long TNT users have waited to have rock-stable drivers? I'm a SS7 user.. and I know how long it was impossible for me to buy a TNT-based card because it would not run at all..! Great, NOW the drivers are stable.. but the card itself is over... so who cares, unless you just need something to tide you over till the next major upgrade (CPU, mobo, vidcard). It's fine for that, but for the long haul... the long haul is pretty much over for the TNT, even in nVidia's opinion. The G400 has a lot more longevity in it than the TNT does.

So you're slamming Matrox specifically for a problem that every videocard manufacturer has or will have in 4-5 weeks, and unfavorably comparing their early drivers to mature drivers a year old... neither of which, btw is likely to work flawlessly on a new software implementation like win2k...

I just don't know what on earth you expect, Fish...! We'd all love for new HW and SW to integrate seamlessly out of the various boxes on the 1st try, but it ain't gonna happen, apparently... and that's not really unreasonable that it doesn't.

At least with Matrox, here on this bbs, you know that your problems are directly and personally dealt with by Tech Support (Haig, Manager of), Developer Relations (R0M), and even sometimes Sales (MikeA, wherever he lurks). See if you get that on the Riva Zone...!

----------------------
Holly

**The Rock** · 13 October 1999, 21:05

Tish:

I've seen you whine about a lack of Win2K drivers from Matrox several times, and I simply must open my big mouth. How the hell can you whine about not having drivers for a BETA operating system that you probably obtained illegally?? (unless your a MS beta tester) Matrox says the drivers will be there when the OS hits, and they probably will be. As far as needing a high end CPU to get decent results, that's plain bullshit. I have a P2 350 and a plain G400 and it rocks. AND the drivers are "Rock" solid. And as for pricing, here in Ottawa, the TNT2 Ultra is $310 + tax. G400 is $245. GeForce should have a mortgage option on it. I'm not trying to rouse your ire here lady , but I think you may be having problems that don't relate directly to your Matrox.

NoClue: here's a summary;

1) GeForce - brand new, price that only a successful crack dealer could afford, decent performance, loads of features that won't be taken advantage of for a good year, and since it's new, the drivers will surely suck.

2) TNT2 Ultra - steep price (except on non-Ultra models), decent speed, stable drivers (after 6-8 months of trial and error by Nvidia), doesn't look half as good as the G400, not so great 2d.

3) G400 (non-Max) - great price, decent speed, best image quality in the business, renders faster in 32bit than the TNT2, rock solid drivers, best 2d in the biz as well, and contrary to what other may say, DOES perform well on low end CPU's (mine's a P2 350); it just performs BETTER with faster CPUs.

You be the judge; it's your money after all.

Motub: amen.

------------------
The Rock
"Discourage incest - ban country music NOW!"

System:
P2 350 /w Asus P2B /w 128 Meg PC100 SDRAM
17.2Gig Maxtor DiamondMax HD + 6.4Gig Fujitsu HD
Matrox G400 32Meg + SB PCI 128 Sound
Modem Blaster 56K Modem + Panasonic 2x/4x SCSI Toaster + 32X CD-ROM

[This message has been edited by The Rock (edited 14 October 1999).]

**Mark F** · 13 October 1999, 21:28

Fish,

Are you/have you used a TNT or TNT2? I have had both, in BX board system. They are good cards, but the drivers haven't always done the cards justice. My G400MAX (got it in JULY, so you have a point of referance on it's drivers) has never given me the type of problems that I experienced with my TNT before 1.91 drivers (2.08 for many others). Sure Matrox has had their share of problems, but few people's experiences in recent times, are borne out by your claims. Last post I saw from you your problems were resolved with a reinstall of Windows, showing the problems were not of Matrox's drivers doing ( has that changed? ).

As for Win2K support, I'm happy for NVidia and maybe you that their drivers support it so well, but please remember that Win2K is still a BETA product itself. As such, it's a bit premature to demonize Matrox for not haveing great drivers for it.

If you truly feel NVidia has a solution better suited for you, might I sagest selling your Max and buying a TNT2 (or TNT2 Ultra ), prices on them keep falling (with most people thinking they've reached the end of there usefull life, at least from the view of a new perchase), perhaps then you would be happier.

I have no desire to get into a personal war, but I have to ask. What is it you are trying to do by comeing to this forum, bad mouthing Matrox, and saying NVidia has all the answers? I'm realy curious to hear your reponce; and hope it's something more than 'I never said they had all the answers'.

Mark F.

------------------
OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD

Guess while I was writeing this ROCK already asked some of these questions. Oh well...

[This message has been edited by Mark F (edited 14 October 1999).]

**NoClue** · 13 October 1999, 21:52

Well thanks for all your replies. I read them with great interest even though I've already got me a new video card... and - you may be disapointed - it's a Viper770 TNT2 Ultra!
So why didn't I get the G400? First of all it was it's price...here in Switzerland the G400 is too expensive at the moment. The Viper costs about the same as the G400 Vanilla non-dualhead 32mb costs. And if you compare these two - you can't deny that - the Viper
wins!
And yes, I just got that card to "tide me over till the next major upgrade".
So the G400 is too expensive, the GeForce not avaiable yet in europe (and when it will be, I sure won't be able to pay it, cause I'm not into crack dealing really)

Anyway, I will miss this forum, cause it helped me out of many problems with my G200 (too many actually) and I dont know another tech-support forum thats as nearly as good as this one and I hope you will keep up the good work cause who knows, maybe I'll come back here when the next gen card from Matrox enters the arena...

greetings
NoClue

(and don't bother me abnout my bad english, I'm working on it)

**motub** · 13 October 1999, 22:30

Ookaaaay...., well, good luck to you, then...!

[is it just me or was that all a trifle strange...? oh well...]

-------------------------
Holly

**motub** · 13 October 1999, 22:31

[I mean, what advice did he need, if it came down to price and raw speed..???]

-----------------
Holly

**The Rock** · 13 October 1999, 22:34

Wow; the TNT2 Ultra costing less than a plain vanilla G400 single-head?? Matrox must be extorting the swiss.

------------------
The Rock
"Discourage incest - ban country music NOW!"

System:
P2 350 /w Asus P2B /w 128 Meg PC100 SDRAM
17.2Gig Maxtor DiamondMax HD + 6.4Gig Fujitsu HD
Matrox G400 32Meg + SB PCI 128 Sound
Modem Blaster 56K Modem + Panasonic 2x/4x SCSI Toaster + 32X CD-ROM

**Mark F** · 14 October 1999, 22:35

Fish must be sleeping...no reponces

Mark F.

------------------
OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD

Announcement

G400/MAX/TNT2/ULTRA/GeFORCE - I need an advice

G400/MAX/TNT2/ULTRA/GeFORCE - I need an advice

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment