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  • Global warming just got crazier

    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service

    Snowy forests 'increase warming'
    Planting trees in snowy areas may worsen global warming as their canopies absorb sunlight which would otherwise be reflected by the snow, a study says.

    The report in US journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences says the pine forests of Europe, Siberia and Canada may contribute to warming.

    Only tropical forests effectively cool the earth by absorbing carbon dioxide and creating clouds, the report says.

    But the report's authors stress they are not advocating chopping down trees.

    They say forests are a valuable resource and remain vital for bio-diversity, providing a home for animals and plants.

    'Lively discussion'

    Scientists have long argued that planting and preserving forests helps reduce global warming because trees absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and convert it to oxygen.

    Trees also absorb water from the ground, helping to form clouds that shield the earth from sunlight.

    But the report's findings, discussed last year at an American Geophysical Union meeting and now published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, suggest planting forests indiscriminately may be counter-productive.

    In cooler areas of the earth, tree cover helps store sunlight reflected by snow on the ground and this "cancels or exceeds" the net cooling effect, Mr Bala told the AFP news agency.

    Another author of the report, Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution, said the report suggested it is "more important to preserve and restore tropical forests than had been previously realised".

    But, he told the Associated Press news agency, he was "a little concerned about this being misapplied as an excuse to chop down the forests in the name of saving the environment".

    Computer models produced by the report's authors suggested deforestation in higher latitudes could reduce global warming.

    Steven W Running, a professor of ecology at the University of Montana, praised the report's authors for "sparking a lively scientific discussion".

    But Mr Running, who was not involved in the report, said it was too early to base policy on the report's conclusion that certain types of reforestation might be counter-productive.
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."

  • #2
    What's crazy about that? Albedo is an important factor and sequestration by conifers is very small. It's logical.
    Brian (the devil incarnate)

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    • #3
      Save the world : eat a tree
      If there's artificial intelligence, there's bound to be some artificial stupidity.

      Jeremy Clarkson "806 brake horsepower..and that on that limp wrist faerie liquid the Americans call petrol, if you run it on the more explosive jungle juice we have in Europe you'd be getting 850 brake horsepower..."

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      • #4
        Woodn't that be treeson?
        Brian (the devil incarnate)

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        • #5
          Al won't bedo n' that.


          PS @Doc: see? recycling!
          Chuck
          秋音的爸爸

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          • #6
            Their logic train will adapt to whatever scenario is necessary to maintain their research grants.
            Dr. Mordrid
            ----------------------------
            An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

            I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
              Their logic train will adapt to whatever scenario is necessary to maintain their research grants.
              Haven't you already stressed that enough?

              assuming that the majority of them are just shouting so that they maintain their grants makes you as exaggerative as you imply they are....

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              • #8
                If they can attempt to gain credence by repetition why is tit for tat wrong?

                I mean c'mon; the "consensus" among "scientists" and especially "journalists" is that we should cower in fear using a moving target standard of "proof" as justification.

                In 2005 they PREDICTED a nasty 2006 hurricane season, and it was a total freakin' BUST!! Why? Because of a mild El Nino they say.

                So, why didn't oh-so-mighty their models predict the damned El Nino? If they cannot do that, they certainly cannot predict global climate 100 years from now.

                Better question: if they plug in all the numbers for 2006 and run the model backwards do you get anything that looks even a bit like 2005, 1955, 1905 or 1855? If not go back to your lab & shut up until it does.

                Lots of hurricanes: GW

                No hurricanes: GW

                Floods: GW

                Droughts: GW

                El Niño: GW

                No El Niño: GW

                Famine: GW

                Obesity: GW

                Plagues: GW

                Locusts: GW

                Deaths of first born: GW

                Catsup won't come out: GW

                Cold weather: GW

                Hot weather: GW

                Sunny days: GW

                Cloudy days: GW

                Crabgrass: GW

                Cutworms: GW

                you complete the list because even the silly stuff will make it eventually

                Penn & Teller say it best: BULLS**T!!
                Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 10 April 2007, 13:28.
                Dr. Mordrid
                ----------------------------
                An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                Comment


                • #9
                  What do predictions about the effects of global warming have to do with whether global warming is taking place, or it's causes?

                  Is this a "If they're wrong about one thing they must be wrong about everything" argument?
                  Chuck
                  秋音的爸爸

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                  • #10
                    I think there is no doubt that we are causing some kind of effect on the planets weather patterns, as well as some form of global warming, all this carbon monoxide as well as dioxcide has to go somewhere, it's not just disipating into nothingness.

                    It's only time until we start seeing major events that will be caused by no other than us (the people of this earth)

                    Regards,
                    Elie

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cjolley View Post
                      What do predictions about the effects of global warming have to do with whether global warming is taking place, or it's causes?
                      If your predictions cannot be made to jibe with real-world measurements then your science has to be called into question. In this case a mathematical model (formula) should be bidirectional to have credence. This holds for theories of everything, the inverse square law etc., so why not warming models?
                      Dr. Mordrid
                      ----------------------------
                      An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                      I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sometimes I do think that does that say that global warming is just the new "scary thing" to scream about that they adopted after the soviet union fell and the coldwar thawed is right.
                        If there's artificial intelligence, there's bound to be some artificial stupidity.

                        Jeremy Clarkson "806 brake horsepower..and that on that limp wrist faerie liquid the Americans call petrol, if you run it on the more explosive jungle juice we have in Europe you'd be getting 850 brake horsepower..."

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                        • #13
                          Did you know theres GLobal Warming on other Planets
                          Chief Lemon Buyer no more Linux sucks but not as much
                          Weather nut and sad git.

                          My Weather Page

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dr Mordrid View Post
                            If your predictions cannot be made to jibe with real-world measurements then your science has to be called into question. In this case a mathematical model (formula) should be bidirectional to have credence. This holds for theories of everything, the inverse square law etc., so why not warming models?
                            But it does exactly that: see IPCC SFPWGI. figure SPM-3(a) to see that temperature change modelling has been calculated bidirectionally, but then I don't suppose you are interested in the science, only your personal political crusade.
                            Brian (the devil incarnate)

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                            • #15
                              I always thought that is was better to use the term climate change. Than global warming.
                              ______________________________
                              Nothing is impossible, some things are just unlikely.

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