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View Full Version : PM to unwrap drug-driving bill today.



ZokesPro
10th November 2006, 11:19
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061110.wxdrugdriving10/BNStory/National/home

I have mixed feelings about this one. When you take drugs it leave traces in your system for quite some time. Even eating poppy seeds can leave traces of opium in your system. Marijuana supposedly stays in your system for about 6 months! How are they going to enforce this law correctly?

Technoid
10th November 2006, 11:21
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061110.wxdrugdriving10/BNStory/National/home

I have mixed feelings about this one. When you take drugs it leave traces in your system for quite some time. Even eating poppy seeds can leave traces of opium in your system. Marijuana supposedly stays in your system for about 6 months! How are they going to enforce this law correctly?

As succesfully shown in the first mythbusters ep :p

Dr Mordrid
10th November 2006, 11:37
You can live with it.

Here it's called 'impaired driving' and it covers both drunk/drugs. Even meds that impair your abilities count as it's your functionality that's at issue. You just have to think for a change.

If you refuse roadside testing you get hammered for that as it's condition of getting your license that you submit. Testing is both 'blowing' for alcohol and a (usually) taped physical performance test.

IMO if you impair yourself with anything then put yourself in a position to hurt others you deserve what you get, but then I spent ~25 years picking up the pieces :mad:

ZokesPro
10th November 2006, 11:54
You can live with it.

Here it's called 'impaired driving' and it covers both drunk/drugs. Even meds that impair your abilities count as it's your functionality that's at issue. You just have to think for a change.

IMO if you impair yourself with anything then put yourself in a position to hurt others you deserve what you get, but then I spent ~25 years picking up the pieces :mad:
I understand, but that's not the topic of this thread.

Dr Mordrid
10th November 2006, 11:58
Lemme understand; you want to keep a rediculously high standard of proof so you can eat poppyseed rolls and risk others by driving while high? Pfffttttt....

Gurm
10th November 2006, 12:03
Well the problem is in how it's applied. Over here if you're busted and test positive for opiates, poppyseed muffins are a pretty good excuse and you can require retesting, etc. etc.

On the other hand, you absolutely aren't supposed to drive "under the influence" of ANYTHING. Including aspirin.

schmosef
10th November 2006, 12:40
I understand, but that's not the topic of this thread.
:confused: so what is?

I agree with Doc 1000%!

Strahd
10th November 2006, 12:51
:confused: so what is?

I agree with Doc 1000%!

Well, I think what Zokes Pro was getting at was let's say you smoke a joint, in your own home, and don't drive til the next morning, 12 hours later.

If as Zokes mentioned, Marijuana can stay in your system for about 6 months, then the next morning when you're sober, can you get nabbed, despite the fact that you were "responsible" the night before and didn't drive under the influence? Is there levels that can be detected like in the case of Alcohol... .08 being the limit up here.

schmosef
10th November 2006, 13:06
well, obviously, there needs to be some sort of understanding of levels, as with alcohol.

but personally, i wouldn't mind if the laws were .01 for alcohol (allowing for mouthwash, etc.) and near 0 (allowing for poppy seeds) traces of narcotics, etc for other drugs.

Wombat
10th November 2006, 13:51
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061110.wxdrugdriving10/BNStory/National/home

I have mixed feelings about this one. When you take drugs it leave traces in your system for quite some time. Even eating poppy seeds can leave traces of opium in your system. Marijuana supposedly stays in your system for about 6 months! How are they going to enforce this law correctly?

First of all, they're starting off with a roadside test for impairment. If you're not drunk or high, then you'll pass this test, end of story.

Second, THC can be found in your hair for quite some time, but it's only in your urine for days, less than two weeks. The article says its a fluid test.

agallag
10th November 2006, 13:56
If they're going for all forms of impairment, they should be cracking down on sleepy drivers too. I've heard of too many accidents caused by people falling asleep at the wheel.

Nowhere
10th November 2006, 14:06
...and the ones that use cellphones.

Anyway...I'm a bit baffled how people from places with 0.08% and not criticising this (that's 3 to 4 beers...) can honestly criticise suggestion that there should be some trace amount of other substances allowed... :confused:

ZokesPro
10th November 2006, 15:52
On the other hand, you absolutely aren't supposed to drive "under the influence" of ANYTHING. Including aspirin.
Aspirin?



@Wombat: The article says "bodily fluid is demanded to confirm the result", must have missed that part.

@agallag: Yeah no kidding, especially the ones driving 18 wheelers!

@Nowhere: I'm all for lowering the limit, I think .03 would be a good limit or one beer, cause at .01 you can't drink much if anything at all considering the portions and there's nothing wrong with drinking one beer me thinks.

Brian Ellis
11th November 2006, 00:24
Alcohol: in Europe, most countries have 0.05%. If blowing into the machine shows positive or nearly so, you have to submit to a blood analysis which is the only way to accurately determine the amount. If you wish, half the blood sample can be counterexpertised. Anything over the limit and it is automatic withdrawal of the licence for the first offence and a stinging fine, going up to withdrawal for life and prison for a third offence (plus the consequences of any other offences, of course). Some countries have tighter limits going down to 0.00%; a few have looser limits, such as here (0.09%).

Drugs: theoretically, ripe poppy seeds contain no opiates, but unripe ones may. The problem is that the test is too sensitive. For this reason, results under 2 µg/cm3 in the blood are ignored (or should be). Real opiate users have levels exceeding 25-50 µg/cm3 even after 48 hours. Eat half-a-dozen poppy-seeded bread rolls and you would still be under 2 µg/cm3. If commercial poppy seeds were as bad as some pretend, don't you think addicts would use them to extract their fix? You would probably need a 50 kg bag of unripe seeds for a single dose!

The real problem is that some OTC and prescription drugs, such as cough syrups and some analgesics, may contain some opiates at a far higher dosage than from poppy seeds, without the user being aware of the fact or, if he is, aware that it may cause him to seriously fail a drug test, even if his driving is not impaired. In the past (before the drug paranoia was current), I was prescribed codeine pills for a chronic tracheitis. I'm damn sure I would have been "over the limit" today, but I don't believe my driving ability was impaired with that dosage. Of course, the dosage was far less than with "recreational" drug use.

Marijuana is another kettle of fish. In most places, it is not a prescription drug and in those where it is, it is prescribed only for serious cases of cancer, MS or similar, where the patient would not be driving, anyway. It can therefore be assumed that even trace amounts were a result of "recreational" use (accidents like the cops being given laced Big Macs apart). I believe that studies have been made in the Netherlands, but I don't know of anywhere where it is considered there is an acceptable limit of THC in the blood. Maybe this could be determined.

Greebe
11th November 2006, 20:35
FYI the reason the US didn't get the Blood Alcohol Level reduced to the lower levels certain groups wanted imposed is due to the fact that many people can have a naturally occuring BAL of 0.04-0.05%. So when they claim the person can drink two drinks and not be legally impaired is bull. Not when you can have only one and exceed the limit. I am one of those.

I also happen to be one of those that EVERYONE always wanted as the designated driver, regardless if I had anything to drink or not because alcohol doesn't have the same effect on me as it does others. Try as I might there have been times when I was forced to drive, always without incident and always regretting it.

That ended many years ago, just prior to having the responcibility of a child. It normally takes a parent to understand this, sadly there are far to many mothers and fathers who put not only themselves, but their children at risk along with anyone else who happenchance be in the direction of the vehicle they're driving. With one of my ex neighbors this was a nightly event!

Lost one of my closest friends to a drunk driver her senior year HS. On a double date, the guys were sloppy drunk while the girls hadn't had anything. Her date borrowed a Mustang GT Convertable from the dealership he worked, got drunk, picked the girls up and rolled it through a cornfield, misjudging a curve on the way to a club just south of town. The guys survived, with nairy a scratch, with the girls thrown from the car. Her best friend was crippled and disfigured for life. Lisa was one of those girls that wasn't refered to as pretty or cute or good looking, it was always stunningly beautiful, model material, or more often 'and then there is Lisa'. Damn I miss her :(