$378 at Best Buy: Toshiba 26DF56

[Jerry Jones]

$378 at Best Buy:

http://tinyurl.com/qv4op

I got one for my studio; I wanted something relatively small that could receive digital channels and display 16:9 aspect ratio standard definition video.

Love it, so far.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Dr Mordrid]

Between AVCHD, HDV & God knows what'll be announced next week it's time to retire old chicken-lips

(chicken-lips = nick for my Commodore/JVC monitor)

[nunchalnaomi]

that is not even hdv. It is a sd set. It is 480 i. Big woop. I will wait for the 1080p sets to drop in price. Or at least a 720p set.

[Jerry Jones]

I didn't want HD.

HD -- for me -- is pointless.

Why?

1. I don't own any high definition DVDs.

2. I don't know which high definition DVD standard is going to win.

3. The high definition DVD debacle is probably going to take many more months to resolve.

4. None of my friends or relatives have high definition DVD players.

Until then, I'm going to enjoy my standard definition DVDs on a standard definition TV.

You seem to be under the impression that an HDTV will make your standard definition DVDs look better.

I hope -- by now -- that even you are beginning to understand that isn't true.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

By the way, a WARNING.

A few months ago, I purchased a Best Buy "in-house" branded TV -- the INSIGNIA model NS-27RTV here:

http://tinyurl.com/jt3jw

The one I purchased works great.

However, I suspect some defective picture tubes *may* have slipped past the Best Buy quality control people.

Why do I believe this?

Well, I bought a *second* one of these model NS-27RTV TVs earlier this week and -- at first -- it seemed to work just as well as the original one that I bought several weeks ago.

But after using the TV for a couple of days, I realized something was wrong.

Digital channels 6.1 and 12.1 did not display correctly when the "zoom" feature was activated to display 4:3 aspect ratio material broadcast on those channels FULL SCREEN and CENTERED.

The picture -- to my surprise -- displayed OFF CENTER... about two inches too far to the LEFT.

All of the other 4:3 digital channels displayed correctly.

VERY STRANGE!

I then re-checked my original NS-27RTV and it was perfect; even the digital channels 6.1 and 12.1 displayed FULL SCREEN and CENTERED as expected.

So I took the second TV back to the store and swapped it for a THIRD, which exhibited the SAME PROBLEM!

Next, I took the THIRD one back and swapped it for the more expensive TOSHIBA branded model and now all is well.

So there may be a quality control issue with that INSIGNIA brand.

I explained the problem very carefully to the Boise "Best Buy" staff.

I hope they report it to the senior managers.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Elie]

$378 at Best Buy:

http://tinyurl.com/qv4op

I got one for my studio; I wanted something relatively small that could receive digital channels and display 16:9 aspect ratio standard definition video.

Love it, so far.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Not impressed what so ever!

Today all TV's must support HD and I'm surprised Toshiba is selling non HD compliant TV's

[Jerry Jones]

Elie,

1. As you know, there is no high definition DVD standard, only an ongoing battle between two INCOMPATIBLE high definition DVD formats, which makes high definition DVDs "bleeding edge" technology with no widespread adoption.

2. The new ATSC digital TV broadcast standard in the United States...

http://tinyurl.com/3jfvl

...does NOT scrap standard definition.

3. In fact, the ATSC digital TV broadcast standard in the United States will continue to include no fewer than TWELVE (12) standard definition formats in addition to ONLY six (6) high definition formats.

4. ATSC TV broadcasting in my home city of Boise, Idaho, USA includes TWELVE (12) digital channels that feature mostly STANDARD DEFINITION digital programming.

5. Flat-panel HDTVs currently on the market are obsolete; they will be replaced by flat-panel monitors with superior resolution, immensely improved display technology, and lower prices.

As you can see, an HDTV model, at this point in time, makes absolutely NO SENSE to me.

Blow YOUR money as you see fit, but don't waste mine.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

By the way, I do plan to go HD eventually.

But not now.

1. The high definition DVD fiasco MUST BE RESOLVED FIRST.

2. I want the 42 inch flat panel displays to be better than they are now; they currently have too many problems, including the failure to support the highest quality high definition formats, making it silly to consider giving the manufacturers what they're asking.

3. I want the AVCHD camcorders to be supported by editing software.

None of these things has happened to date.

So splurging on an HDTV monitor would -- for me -- be a stupid thing to do.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Elie]

1. The high definition DVD fiasco MUST BE RESOLVED FIRST.

What does that have to do with the HDV or HD output? They will both support HD so who cares who wins, it's like the beta vs VHS fiasco, they both output the same resolution, "SD" to the same TV's which supported either format.

2. I want the 42 inch flat panel displays to be better than they are now; they currently have too many problems, including the failure to support the highest quality high definition formats, making it silly to consider giving the manufacturers what they're asking.

The highest HD res is 1080P and not one TV supports it, so you'll be waiting a long time.

3. I want the AVCHD camcorders to be supported by editing software.

First off, Sony and Panasonic co developed AVCHD which means Blue Ray will most likely only support it.
Also what does that have to do with the output to TV?

All I'm getting at, is sure spend your money any way you want, but if I were to buy a new TV set today, it will have to support 1080i not only for watching regular DVD's as it will be backwards compatible, I can use it on my AXIO/LE to edit HD or HDV footage.
The point is why are manufacturers still producing SD TV sets??????????????????????????????

[Dr Mordrid]

BTW: Ulead/Intervideo is a partner for AVCHD

[Elie]

Yeah I saw that here

http://www.avchd-info.org/

[Jerry Jones]

They will both support HD so who cares who wins, it's like the beta vs VHS fiasco

Elie,

That's precisely why I believe now is not the time for me to jump on either of the high definition formats or a high definition TV.

Remember, these are two INCOMPATIBLE high definition DVD formats:

1. "HD DVD"

2. "Blu-ray Disc"

The only reason a person would want to buy an HDTV set would be to watch a *high* definition DVD (or a *high* definition broadcast or some other *high* definition source).

An HDTV doesn't really improve the playback of a standard definition DVD as this article...

http://tinyurl.com/m8hxk

...explains so eloquently:

"All fixed-pixel TVs--including every flat-panel LCD and plasma as well as rear-projection microdisplays that use DLP, LCD, and LCoS technology--have a certain number of pixels, known as the native resolution, that they use to create the picture."

"With these types of displays, the native resolution is the absolute limit on the amount of detail you'll see."

"Fixed-pixel displays follow a few basic rules:

1. No matter the resolution of the source material, whether VHS, DVD, or HDTV, a fixed-pixel display will always convert, or scale, it to fit its native resolution."
2. If the incoming source has more pixels than the display's native resolution, you will lose some visible detail and sharpness, though often what you're left with still looks pretty good.
3. If the incoming source has fewer pixels than the native resolution, you're not getting any benefit from the extra resolution. In almost every case, extra pixels will not make a lower-resolution source look better."

"All other things being equal, the same (standard definition) DVD shown on an EDTV plasma and an HDTV plasma will have the same amount of detail."

Sure, one can buy a DVD player that "up-converts" standard DVD discs to HD, but everybody knows that's not the same as REAL high definition.

That said, the real GAMBLE for the consumer, Elie, is the high definition DVD fiasco.

Suppose "John Doe" goes out and spends $1,000 on a shiny new "Blu-ray Disc" player.

Suppose twelve months later the vast majority of consumers have instead chosen the less expensive "HD DVD" players and -- worst case scenario -- the "Blu-ray Disc" format is abandoned like the ill-fated Sony Betamax.

Give me one good reason why I should spend $2,000 or more on a high definition display -- now -- with that kind of uncertainty?

Let's add it up.

Let's say "Jerrold Dumbman" buys that nice new Canon XH G1 and all of the HD accessories:

1. Canon XH G1 -- $6999
2. high definition display -- $2000
3. "Blu-ray Disc" player -- $999
4. "Blu-ray Disc" burner -- $500
5. faster computer -- $2,000 (with a processor that can handle 1080 resolutions)

GRAND TOTAL: a hefty $12,498 in the month of August of 2006!

Now let's say "Jerrold Smartman" instead sticks with his MiniDV format camcorders, his standard definition DVD burners, his standard definition DVD players and his standard definition TV, which cost less than $400. And he waits.

He waits until the new H.264/AVCHD high definition camcorder prices drop to less than $1,000 so that he can now buy two (2) tapeless, high definition camcorders for THOUSANDS less than he would otherwise spend on the one "HDV tape format" Canon XH G1.

He waits until the "HD DVD" vs. "Blu-ray Disc" fiasco is decided by the early adopters who blew their wads on the non-mature technology, forcing the prices of the winning high definition DVD player/recorders to drop below $500.

He waits until high definition displays are now beginning to SATURATE the marketplace -- and their prices drop -- to below $1,500 -- and they have now matured to a point where they support 1080p and they're MUCH BIGGER:

http://tinyurl.com/ftzqb

In the meantime, computer processors will have had time to "catch up."

And they'll be not only faster, but CHEAPER.

THAT'S WHEN THE TIME WILL BE RIGHT FOR ME TO BUY.

Right now, high definition is still "bleeding edge."

Some early adopters have no idea how they're getting BURNED by jumping on relatively small, lower resolution displays just so they can THINK they're "high tech."

C'mon, Elie.

You know that where electronics technology is concerned, today's "diamond" turns into tomorrow's "dog."

It's just a matter of time and timing.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

Speaking of the Sony Betamax, I remember when they were released...

1976.

And they cost a fortune.

The SL-7200 model cost $1,295, which was a lot of money in 1976.

Now look at that piece of junk:

http://tinyurl.com/ga4cp

It doesn't look so "high tech" now, does it?

That's how I view the HDTV flat panels currently in my local "Best Buy" store.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

As PaulW has informed us, the "Blu-ray Disc" drive being demonstrated by SONY won't even play "Blu-ray Disc" movies!!!

The full story here:

http://tinyurl.com/n6je5

Also, the tube TV I mentioned in this thread is just that... a tube TV... mature technology that still has its enthusiastic supporters as this thread on the www.videohelp.com Web site demonstrates:

http://tinyurl.com/mbcyl

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[KvHagedorn]

Jerrold, do you ever bother looking anywhere but Best Buy?

As far as I'm concerned, that Toshiba would be a waste of money. Of course, that's just a matter of opinion, and mine might be as idiosyncratic as yours. Toshiba outsources all its CRT set manufactures to a company called Orion.. I remember when this company made its own branded sets, and they were profoundly inferior in every way, particularly with regards to build quality and longevity. Oh, this set might offer scan doubling and 16:9, but is it really the best picture quality? How long will it last?

btw, you certainly spent a surprising amount of effort in your attempt to get a Best Buy store branded TV that worked. At my store that would not happen.. we don't sell cheap shit, period.. but then at my store, the concerns of the customer are given weight. At Best Buy, it's just a science to see how much crap can be pushed onto how many mindless consumers. I'm sure you were tolerated with amusement and summarily ignored.