Petition drive to request Matrox give $100USD credit to Marvel G200 owners who...

[jeepman]

What about starting a petition campaign to get Matrox to give every Marvel G200 user $100USD credit towards the purchase of their latest vid capture solution. This would be kind of like ATI's trade up program.


We could request Matrox set it up on their website so they know the hits they get are legit. The other reason is to have on their website is to get buy in. They have the possibility to turn a PR disaster into selling a board and making their customers happy. Hopefully, Matrox wants to make their customers happy.

I would turn my card in if they did this just to have an alternative to my ATI AIW, or for my wife's system.

P.S. Would we include Marvel G400 owners? They are at least getting YUV2, but I guess principle would say, "yes!"

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ASUS A7V133, 384MB CL2 Crucial PC133, "Copper" Athlon 1.3GHz@1.43GHz (8*143, GlobalWin FOP38 with Delta 7000 RPM 38CFM fan. AIW Radeon, 3COM 905B NIC, Adaptec 2940UW Ultra-Wide SCSI, SBLive PCI 1024. Segate Medalist PRO 9.1GB UW SCSI 7200RPM, Seagate Barracuda 4.3GB UW SCSI 7200RPM, Maxtor 20.4GB ATA66 7200RPM 2MB Cache, 8GB tape b/u, Sony IDE Spressa 8x/4x/32x CDROM RW, RAID 0 stripe set on Promise ATA100 with dual Quantum Fireball Plus LM 30GB ATA66 drives.

[SwAmPy]

ATI's trade in is more of a scam. I think they offer $40 for any ATI card but you pay s&h and also pay s&h for the new purchase. Final result = you got $10 for your trade in.

So you still want to give Matrox your $$?

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SwAmPy

[Greebe]

Jeepman, the rebate you're asking for will happen when pigs fly.

[mikiem]

I'm not going to speculate on whether or not it would happen, but discounting new products to existing owners is a very viable marketing strategy used in markets from software to automobiles.

Further, discount offers and/or rebates are standard practice in many markets when the manufacturer for whatever reason has customers that feel the company just plain screwed up -- especially if those customers feel the company had previous knowledge of the problem & chose not to correct it.

I think we meet those criteria pretty well, especially since these products were being sold this year.

With Matrox trying to move out a bunch of their new g450e cards -- something I get the impression they haven't been doing that well -- this may be one of their few options to resurect sales, retain any product loyalty, & maybe prevent any sales booms among their competition.

Perhaps someone should start a simple form based poll, just a yes or no thing that would draw everyone, not just those posting here, to say whether they now intended to buy some other company's product.

Give Haig something he can use, like numbers of sales they could make, & take away from someone else.

[Flying dutchman]

Discount or not, once bitten twice shy. My Marvel G200 is the last Matrox product for me.
I saw an interesting goodie somewhere, a box that converts video to firewire and vice versa on the fly. No drivers needed! Just a cheapo firewire card and you're ready to run. In fact, you could copy videotapes directly to a digital camcorder with such a thing. No more hassle with drivers. If only I remembered which website it was on...

[harry]

i've warn you all before thats why I returned
my rt2000 cause the support is not good...
tradein with canopus storm and their support
are great!! try to login into their forum
you'll see how many matrox users support
canopus product now...

harry

[Elie]

Harry,

This has nothing to do with the RT2000, let's stay on topic here!!!!!!!!
The RT2000/RT2500 are both great products with great support like it or not!

Elie

[mikiem]

Flying dutchman,

I've seen a few of those boxes I think -- the only thing I can remember right off the bat though is the Dazzle Hollywood DV Bridge. Their site lists it at $299, or for a bunch of extra bucks they have a higher end card.

Hope that helps...

As far as rebates and such goes, I do think quite a few would go for what may be an only alternative, whether it's saving $ or pride. I also think it's a constructive avenue for Matrox and forum members to pursue, if only for other members & perhaps as a step towards mending.

Myself, I'm trying to keep my cool... I've had problems with my marvel g400 in win98SE for 5 months now, & I was waiting for that new driver set & vt as I suspected the cause to be DX8. I've just spent the better part of 3 days trying to find a solution so I have most of the bases covered when I cry to Haig for help Monday am.

My efforts keeping cool are strained however when I see what seem to be idle posts by Matrox apologists who aren't in the same boat -- *if* we could all afford the RT's, then who would've bought all those RR's & Marvel's?

I hope AndrewDV was right when he talked about perhaps keeping the forum technology neutral. I also hope this doesn't turn into an RT forum, in which case many may just evacuate en masse.

Let's have a little empathy folks...
* * *

durn... still can't find a way to work "Canadian Bacon" into the conversation...

[This_Idiot]

Hi Mikie

Obviously you haven't been hanging around the forum for long enough. Most of "us" are using consumer grade capture cards (whether Matrox or not) rather than the "professional" cards such as RT2000, RT2500,DV500 etc.

Because of the site's history, there is still a bias towards Matrox equipment, and we are graced with the presence of several Beta testers. Now since these guys work their nutz off for nil pay PLUS they have to sign NDAs, it's only fair to expect them to be passionate about what they do. Otherwise, why the hell would they do it ? I gotta say that I've been offered the chance to Beta on a few occasions but have turned it down every time (although I've sometimes had to think about it for more than a few minutes). In my position it would constrain me too much, not being able to say what I know, what I think, what I think I know etc. Which, when you run a website is the stuff that people want to hear.

However, you've got to hand it to these guys, they've got total commitment to their task. So when you ask them a technical question, you'll get an answer that is either something that has been tried and tested, or is a reasoned assumption (based on the fact that it isn't possible to replicate EVERONE's hardware/software setup). Again, it's only fair to assume that when you are talking non-technical, then they're are going to come down on the side of the people that are giving them the hardware/software etc to test out. That isn't an endightment, that's a sensible position to take.

Personally I'm very happy that the BetaBoyz take us serious enough to pop in on a frequent basis and offer advice. Bear in mind though that the greatest thing about advice is that you can ignore the bits that don't interest you or you disagree with.

[Jorden_the_Lover]

I hear that the guy who made this decision is kahmed@matrox.com. Anyone have his direct line?

JTL

[cjyo~]

Well, my Marvel G200 still works okay, but I put off upgrading for a while - and now I've ended up with a multi-boot system, so I can still use the stuck-in-a-Win98-timewarp Marvel.

As for the Analog to DV converters, you might look into buying a cheap camera. Almost all of them have a analog to dv to analog function built-in these days. Mine does and it works great.

[mikiem]

Greetings to This_Idiot;

I'm going to have to assume that this is about more then the earlier post I made in this thread, since that issue appears pretty cut and dry...

There I had become angry, & shouldn't have I admit, when I saw this was posted:

>>This has nothing to do with the RT2000, >>let's stay on topic here!!!!!!!!
>>The RT2000/RT2500 are both great products >>with great support like it or not!

The 2 statements, stay on topic, & the RT's are great products, seem to me to be mutually exclusive. But I've tried to explain that elsewhere with an apology.

I've tried to explain, outline another approach I personally think would be more productive as a whole.

As for technical stuff & CR etc... I've worked with more technical types then most, in a variety of fields. FWIW my first experience coding was using punch card & later a Teletype rig back in the early '70s, so I'm not a virgin.

I won't debate anything related to how hard beta testers, open source folks, or forum moderators for that matter work. Nor will I debate what they get in return, be it only some warm feeling of pride.

Unfortunately, there is a huge difference between the outlook of someone techie & the average, I just wanna get it to work user. Perceptions are different. It just *IS*. I assume from the posts I've read that there are quite a few of these non-tech types frequenting this forum. I also assume that like most forums, there are a number of lurkers, though you'd be in a better position to say obviously.

Now, 30+ years of very successful CR training, education, & experience have taught me that when there is a problem, as the current one with the Matrox driver issue, the average user doesn't want a highly technical explanation of why something occurred -- they want the problem to go away. Their mind set is totally different from the tech's, & such an explanation without a cure can drive them nuts.

Also, there is a bit of psychology involved here... If a person feels they have been wronged, they will often go over those feelings in their head, often rehearsing & reinforcing their opinions. If you want that person to calm, or listen to other view, or consider whatever regarding anything, in this case Matrox, one has to let them get it off their chest.

Those to me are 3 fairly inarguable tenants I'll debate to whatever length with whomever cares to join in, though it's as far off topic here as one can get.

That all said, as I've noted in the separate post, My goals were and are simply to try and introduce some sort of moderation here as things seem to be degrading into a personal level P___ Contest. My language skills are not what they once were obviously, & maybe I did screw up, but I was trying to show some sympathy to the average user, some empathy if you will, in an attempt to retain their eyes in this forum, from a very unofficial capacity.

As I too saw this wasn't working optimally, I decided to spell it out in what I think anyway are rather broad conciliatory terms.

Now, it's your right I imagine to turn this forum in whatever directions you please. I agree 500% with your statement that we can all ignore whatever we choose... with one exception -- a big one..

When it gets to the personal level, however implied, & that's exactly what is happening when someone posts about going out behind the bar, makes it plain they consider those with opposing views as stupid, make various and sundry attacks on the position(s) of someone else. I agree it is understandable, but so are a lot of things that adults generally try to refrain from in any society.

My attempts were/are to moderate that sort of thing, unofficially of course, before this becomes a clone of other forums regarding some other graphics cards. It is an effort where I have less resources to spend then most, and I will more then gladly give it up should you wish. It would (will) in point of fact be much easier if I did take off the gloves so-to-speak, if everyone did, and felt free to speak their mind as some of your loyalists seem more then willing and able to do.

In a moment of self indulgence, I will add that posts like the one I quoted do not seem to bear out the thought that most everyone here feels that they or the majority use consumer grade equipment. To those folks, as I may or may not have noted, RT's are not necessarily pro cards, though many do indeed use them in that capacity.

So, all this is FWIW of course... I have endeavored never to make any personal attacks or implications, nor do I above. I've stated my position and thoughts here and elsewhere, on stopping the infighting for the sake of this forum, Matrox users, & indeed, Matrox itself.

I'm not in any position to be a crusader, least where this site is concerned, and as long as there are alternatives. That's not a snipe, but a factual statement -- you run the site. I'll perhaps thankfully keep my mouth shut unless told otherwise, posting as long as the subject is technical, & I might feel I perhaps have a worthwhile idea to add.

I will respond to any personal attacks though, and again unless someone(s) indicate otherwise, I will go the easy route, not making these efforts to write with the goal of promoting moderation. It's your site.

[This_Idiot]

Hi Mikie

Well I was talking about your posts of a couple of days back : "My efforts keeping cool are strained however when I see what seem to be idle posts by Matrox apologists who aren't in the same boat -- *if* we could all afford the RT's, then who would've bought all those RR's & Marvel's?"

You picked up on Elie without knowing the history of Harry's comments, or how Elie had tried to help out. I was trying to point out that the site would be far poorer without the presence of people who spend a large amount of their free time testing both hardware and software in order to try and make sure that it is as palatable as possible for the consumer. I'd bet that they must be spitting feathers when stuff that they've identified as inadequate gets released and then they can't do or say anything because of the NDA's. Or maybe Matrox practises "Expectation Management" on them so that they know exactly what the ballpark is and what the immediate aims are.

I'm in agreement with you over Matrox and their PR (or CR) policies. It's something I banged my head against on a regular basis until I decided that I was wasting my time and just unnecessarily raising my blood pressure. I guess this comes back to Expectation Management. If you don't want to p!ss people off, you manage their expectations such that they are aware of what you are proposing to address in a software release. BTW, I've got a lot of experience in this line - you wouldn't believe some of the stunts I've seen pulled!

I'm a bit uncomfortable about "personal attacks" though, this is something that I've always been vigilant about and won't tolerate. I don't think I've missed any threads (although I did have a couple of days worth to go through after spending some time with my garden over the weekend). Maybe some transatlantic jargon has got misinterpreted somewhere..

Certainly I haven't seen any open flaming recently. Hehehe, makes one almost nostalgic...

[mikiem]

Hey!

>>you wouldn't believe some of the stunts >>I've seen pulled!

Sixth sense tells me you would really, *REALLY* enjoy getting your hands on some of the UofM behavioral research going on in the late 60's. Scary as h___ once you see it being practiced on you, and you will, but a terrible amount of fun to be had on your part as well, if only at the office.

I am sorry if I caused some concern, & much thanks for your understanding. If I seem a bit too sensitive to some, it all comes from learning the hard way (you don't want to see the claw and teeth marks) that some, well actually a lot of folks will hear what they want to hear.

If someone is *very* ticked at Matrox, they initially want to be very ticked at anyone else not ready to throw mulotov cocktails at the plant. The psychology also says that they want to believe the worst about their perceived oponents.

In other words I'm sure there wasn't any lapse on your part -- if anything watching too closely for stuff that can be taken as implication is the demon on my back.

I really do try to stay away from any posts not technical -- I get too caught up in just talking -- so I didn't know about Elie's history... feel really bad now and apologize again.

One thing I do want to say, is that in my experience a lot of aspects of Dilbert aren't far off at all -- in fact I think the author bases his stuff on real life examples sent his way.

I don't mean the management being total idgits, though of course they can be, but the way peceptions differ so much from one level or function to another. Trying to get my techs into a meeting re: anything business was hard enough, not to mention their eyes glazing over.

What I'm trying to point out is that the Matrox tech people were probably not invited to the prez's dinner table to discuss biz strategy. Im my experience, the way upper management (especially marketing) views their various tech dept.s, telling them just what they need to know, exactly what the techs are supposed to feel, that's all normal stuff & commonplace as can be.

There's a lot of implications there I think, including there being allies within Matrox who were just as ticked when stuff was released as the beta testers.

But that's more then enough for now -- enjoy the trip to London, or find something to enjoy about it anyway. Paraphrasing a Ziggy cartoon I just rc'd, I'd rather be an optomistic loser then a winner who's a pessimist.

[frogster]

Back to the original topic...

There's no way Matrox is going to go for this.
I asked Matrox if they'd be willing to exchange my g400tv with the 450etv and they said no. The also said no to a full refund or partial refund.

They (matrox) decided it was better to cut development costs on these cards regardless of what they promised or how their customers would be affected. I'm sure they reallized that this decision would lose a lot of customers. however, they believe that they will come out ahead in the long run.