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**GNEP** · 27 March 2006, 12:28

I dunno about quality, but I really like my Canon LiDE simply for the fact it takes its power from the USB port. Doesn't sound like much, but it makes a huge difference to the clutter around the desk. Unless I'm actively using it, it's vertical on a shelf, with no power block to lose.

**Technoid** · 27 March 2006, 12:42

Found this : How Digital ICE3 works

**Nowhere** · 27 March 2006, 12:47

Huh? They actually introduced something new and good (tm) to consumer scanners?
And I was almost set to buy some bargain price, but still new (unused) professional SCSI scanner...

**Gurm** · 27 March 2006, 13:04

Originally posted by Technoid

Found this : How Digital ICE3 works

Yes I've seen that, it looks very impressive. But, barring the exaggerated desert demo, is there anything in there that a good photo restoration software can't do?

**Technoid** · 27 March 2006, 14:01

I don't think so....

az · 27 March 2006, 14:25

Digital ICE can be both software and hardware based. Both work, hardware-based works better and is more expensive (and I think only used in film scanners - and not the ones in the low three figures). I think digital ICE works better than what you can do with PhotoPaintShop, at least in a reasonable amount of time. The question is: Do you NEED it? Do you have a lot of slides that would benefit from scratch and dust removal? Do you need this kind of image quality, or will an ordinary scan suffice? Are you talking about flatbed or film scanners? I don't think there are flatbed scanners with hardware scratch and dust removal.

I have heard several times though that the SilverFast software does significantly improve the quality of scan results.

BTW, there is a slide scanner that takes magazines instead of single slides - great idea, but the scan quality is crap

**degrub** · 27 March 2006, 20:18

Digital ICE uses an infrared source and reads "defects" (aka dust, etc) because of the different reflectance from the image. It does work well on chromogenic slides (not B&W silver based or Kodachrome,(depends on the amount of silver left in the image) ), works well on negatives and prints. The key issue for flatbed scanners is exact registration of the two scan passes required. Many times the two scans will be off a little bit and the image will not look correct. Any form of "dust removal" will turn the image slightly soft, but this can usually be recovered with the use of unsharp mask and other sharpening filters in whatever image editing software you use. ICE (from Kodak) is a hardware and software solution . Other companies have offered software only based dust removal programs that have some success, but in my experience , do not do as good a job.

What scanner did you have before that died ? Did it die a hardware death or did the light source die ?

Is she working from prints or negs or slides ? If prints, it won't really matter what scanner you get because the dynamic range of the print is low and almost any scanner has enough resolving capability and dynamic range to extract all the information in the print. I would get whatever Epson fits your budget. If she is working from slides or negatives, then the newer Epsons might well fit the bill - V700 or 49XX series. If you need better than that, then you are really talking a dedicated film scanner like the Nikon V or 5000 (35 mm only)

To address #2 - no, it is nothing like digital zoom. However, if you are working with prints, then a simple wipe with a lint free cloth should work, along with wiping the scanner bed periodically with same. Keeping the humidity up helps as well. If you are working with film, then purchase an anti static brush (photo supply house) and gently brush the dust off. The anti static brush has a strand of polonium in it to remove the charge from the film and the dust and the dust just falls away!

**Gurm** · 28 March 2006, 05:51

Degrub, thanks for the info.

Here's the situation. She has a lot of ... mostly FADED prints of her brother when he was a baby and small child. A lot of them are on the old Polaroid (and Kodak before they lost that lawsuit) instant film squares (3"x3"). The biggest concern is restoring the colors and sharpness from faded pictures, not so much dust or cracks.

So I am guessing from what you're saying that ICE's "magic" is really only uber-impressive for actual photo DEFECTS or dirt or dust, right? That what it does in the realm of color restoration and sharpness is roughly the same as what a good piece of software would do?

az · 28 March 2006, 06:06

I think with careful manual fine-tuning you can do better than any automatic restoration (for colors).

**Wombat** · 28 March 2006, 11:13

Originally posted by Gurm

So I am guessing from what you're saying that ICE's "magic" is really only uber-impressive for actual photo DEFECTS or dirt or dust, right? That what it does in the realm of color restoration and sharpness is roughly the same as what a good piece of software would do?

Don't forget the inevitable dust IN the scanner.

**degrub** · 28 March 2006, 20:15

Yes on dust and defects. ICE does nothing for restoration of color. ASF (KODAK now) has two other software tools called ROC (restoration of color) and GEM (grain equalization managment) that do a reasonable job and are available as PS plugins (willl work in any app that understands PS plugins). But , AZ is correct, with some practice you can make the adjustments manually with curves, HSB adjustments, etc. ROC or other software may get you pretty close though. Get your hands on a copy of Katrin Eismann's book (up to version 3 now) on photo restoration - she has a lot of tricks and recipes for recovering old prints. if you want a copy of version 1, i'll send it to you for the cost of UPS.

One thing that helps is using a calibrated monitor (not LCD) to judge how close one is. Adobe gamma utility will get you pretty close, but somthing like Colorvision Spyder or Monaco (with CRT calibration) will do it painlessly. And then there is getting the printer to match reasonably.

**ND66** · 28 March 2006, 20:54

Originally posted by degrub

And then there is getting the printer to match reasonably.

The Colorvision Spyder2 Suite or PRO version does create printer color profile too. Never used it myself. I just got the Express version since I didn't need to create printer profile but once I had it, I did realize what's missing.
The Express version has fixed monitor Gamma & Temperature settings, unlike the PRO version comes with unlimited choices of those two.
Express version did get me close but not 100 % yet. That includes my laptop LCD screen.
I'm tempted to upgrate to the PRO version hoping I could tweek the laptop LCD closer yet.

Andy.
BTW, to create printer profile you'll need a scanner too.

**Gurm** · 29 March 2006, 05:35

This is all really excellent information. I'm thinking that what all of this means, though, is that I can tell my wife to SAVE her $250 and just get your basic scanner again, yeah?

**Damien** · 29 March 2006, 07:07

I have used a NIKON film scanner with digital ice and I have to say it works very well. It saved me about 30 minutes Photoshop work per picture. If you only have a few pictures and time is not a factor then go without it. If on the other hand you have a lot of old pictures you will really notice the extra cash investment in digital ice. The NIKON software that I used had other cleaning and colour correction built in. Most pictures were a one stop scan for removing dirt,scratches and improving colour and tones.

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