Iran caught smuggling fake ballots....

[Dr Mordrid]

into Iraq days before their parlaimentary election;

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3523453.html

BAGHDAD, IRAQ -

Less than two days before nationwide elections, Iraqi border police seized a tanker truck on Tuesday that had just crossed from Iran filled with thousands of forged ballots, an official at Iraq's Interior Ministry said.

The tanker was seized by agents with the U.S.-trained border protection force at the Iraqi town of Badra, after crossing at Munthirya on the Iraqi border, the official said. According to the Iraqi official, the border police found several thousand partially completed ballots inside.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the Iranian truck driver told the police under interrogation that at least three other trucks filled with ballots had crossed from Iran at different spots along the border.

The official, who did not attend the interrogation, said he did not know where the driver was headed, or what he intended to do with the ballots.

The seizure of the truck comes at a delicate time in Iran's relations with both Iraq and the United States.

The U.S. government has alleged that Iranian agents are deeply involved in trying to influence events in Iraq, by funneling money to Shiite political parties and by arming and training many of the illegal militias that are bedeviling the country.

That should help Irans international status

Dr. Mordrid

[schmosef]

Oh those wacky Mullahs!

[TransformX]

And if that wasn't enough, http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/...ap/index.html:

Iran leader: Holocaust a 'myth'

Wednesday, December 14, 2005; Posted: 3:29 a.m. EST (08:29 GMT)

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday the Holocaust is a "myth" that Europeans have used to create a Jewish state in the heart of the Islamic world.

"Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets," Ahmadinejad told a crowd of thousands in the southeastern city of Zahedan.

Six million Jews were killed in Europe during the Nazi Holocaust of World War II.

Ahmadinejad said it was the Europeans who committed crimes against the Jews and they, the United States or Canada should give part of their land to the Jews to establish a state.

Ahmadinejad provoked an international outcry in October when he called Israel a "disgraceful blot" that should be "wiped off the map."

Last week, he suggested that Israel should be transferred to Europe, drawing further condemnation.

"If you (Europeans) committed this big crime, then why should the oppressed Palestinian nation pay the price?" Ahmadinejad asked rhetorically Wednesday. "You (Europeans) have to pay the compensation yourself.

"This is our proposal: give a part of your own land in Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to them (Jews) so that the Jews can establish their country," he said.

Ahmadinejad said the West had harmed Muslims, invaded their countries and plundered their wealth.

"If your civilization consists of aggression, making oppressed people homeless, suffocating the voices of justice and bringing poverty to a majority of the world's people, we say loudly that we hate your hollow civilization," he said.

The president's views sharply conflict with those of his predecessor Mohammad Khatami, a political moderate who used to call for a dialogue among civilizations and promoted a low-key understanding with the United States that stopped short of diplomatic relations.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[TransformX]

Food for thought:
Iran doesn't have a border with Israel.
Iran doesn't have land disputes with Israel.
Yet, Iran funds terrorist groups that operate against Israel, calls the other Arab nations to wage war against Israel and is actively working its way to build a nuclear bomb in order to wipe out Israel.
To be certain, they keep on telling the world that Israel should be wiped out, just in case someone missed the hints that they're actually planning and actively working towards doing it.
I don't know about you and frankly I don't give a damn about retaliation, the hole in the ozone layer or the destruction of all kinds of species. This way or another, once the A/H/N-bomb drops, it will happen, which seems rather inevitable. My choice is for this to happen in Iran rather than Israel.

[schmosef]

Islam is the real myth.

(yeah, I said it!)


...

I don't know what pisses me off more. Denial of the Holocaust or the fact that debating this point lends credence to the idea that Israel's justification is based solely on the horrors of WWII.

[Helevitia]

Man claims he is allowed to chastise Jews because that is what the ancient writings told him he could do.

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/story.html?id=a7e071a6-111c-46d0-9b10-c1ab3d631a31&k=58869

[Mehen]

google 'holocaust hoax' and see what you find

not saying they are all correct, but its probably good to read up on before blind denial of the hoax - it does seem like some of the numbers of the holocaust are exaggerated

[schmosef]

:sigh:

if anything, the #s are under reported.

fair warning... don't start down this road unless it's something you actually care about debating.

[Wombat]

And probably deserves its own thread

[schmosef]

I don't even think it's worth debating.

@|Mehen|, I do tech consulting work for March of the Living (www.marchoftheliving.org). Almost everyone in Canada going on March of the Living in 2006 will have used a site I wrote to apply for the trip. It would not be accurate to describe my perspective as a "blind denial of the hoax". If there's a particular issue that confuses you, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. PM me if you like.

[Mehen]

'blind' was probably referring more to MY knowledge of the holocaust (and probably the majority of us). My point is that very few of have any real knowledge of what really happened and all that I MYSELF know is what is told to us in school - "6 million Jews died" and that the Holocaust was real.

I have never questioned this myself until today, so I decided to look some of it up. Basically, the sites that I have found that dispute the holocaust are really just saying it was exaggerated. What I would like to see is clear and hard evidence of the real numbers. Some evidence of the bodies and whatnot. Obviously I'm not changing my mind based on what google and its results have told me. I am doing more research into this as I am writing this - mostly the population figures. One of the "holocaust is a hoax" sites said that from 1940 to 1948 the jewish population actually increased by half a million. Strange. So as I said, I will continue to research this and any information that you have would be much appreciated so I can clear this up in my own head

[Wombat]

Doc, I can find no such article on chron.com, or news.google.com. Current pages read

Rumors swept Baghdad that a tanker truck filled with thousands of blank ballots had been smuggled into the country from Shiite-dominated Iran. Many Sunnis consider Shiite political parties as agents of Iran.

The Interior Ministry denied any attempt to smuggle ballots, and the election commission said the only trucks in the area were its own delivering election materials to polling stations.

[schmosef]

The "Holocaust Related Links" section of the links page on www.marchoftheliving.org would be a good start.

Note that I didn't write that site and it's got a lot of glitches. Some of the links are not properly coded so you have to copy and paste them into your address bar and then fix the illegal characters.

[Mehen]

alright I'll check it out, thanks

[Mehen]

"Deborah Lipstadt, author of Denying the Holocaust, insists that there is not and cannot be a debate on the Holocaust. In a few countries, including France and Germany, those who express dissident views on this issue are treated as criminals." yikes!
(http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n1p22_Weber.html)

The holocaust deniers seem to use small facts from specific times to account for the entire war. For example:

"Weber cited detailed aerial photographs of Auschwitz taken by Allied reconnaissance aircraft on several random days in 1944, during the height of the alleged extermination period there. These photographs, which were first made public in 1979, "show no trace of piles of corpses, smoking crematory chimneys or masses of Jews awaiting death," all of which have been alleged, and which would have been visible if Auschwitz had indeed been the infamous extermination center it is said to have been."

From what I have found though, most of the mass murders were in 1942 and 1943, these pictures that were taken were in 1944 - so they really prove nothing. Also, many of the Jews were basically piled up in holes in the ground, hence no piles of corpes, or smoking crematory chimneys etc.

The nay-sayers seem to be stretching the small facts a little too far, which is probably what initially caught me off gaurd when I began this research.
I am reminded of a simpsons quote in which Homer sarcastically says:

Homer: "Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely
true! Facts, schmacks."

Despite this, I would still like to ask God-Almighty for an exact number