Ageia PhysX

[Nowhere]

I'm sure some of you ave heard about this product, out soon, and if not Google will give much better info than I could.
Short description: it's a coprocessor meant for accelarting physics in games.

And I've found accidentally info about two incoming cards based on it, one from Asus and one from BFG. Now, what's interesting is that while the prototype board seems to have both PCI and PCIe x1 (on opposing sides, quite clever). The production baords have only PCI.
Hmm...let us see...device with 128MB of memory, working with ~realtime app, sitting on PCI bus.
You know at what I'm hinting, right?

Perhaps finally typical benchmark reviews will show something "weird" with Via...

[schmosef]

It looks promising but I think that for something like this to really take of it would need to be licensed by nVidia or ATI and either integrated into their GPUs or added as a co-processor in their cards.

[DGhost]

Sometimes I really wonder... does the PhysX really need all that memory? I mean... 128MB.

If gfx card makers are going to integrate it, then that would mean even more expensive graphics cards...

I personally would like them seperated.

According to Aegia, PCI is more than enough.

I could see it needing the memory if it is handling large amounts of particles.

That being said... I really don't know if we currently need a dedicated physics accelerator. Games are having a hard time nail the physics thing (personally, I still think that Half Life 2 has a piss poor physics engine), and it really will not add that much to overall game play. they are not using AI that is complex enough to fill the void that would be left, and dual core processors could definately provide a decent performance improvement in physics if you code for them.

ATI was already talking about being able to use their GPU to execute the same sort of math, the whole "GPGPU" trend and all.

interesting idea, but I don't see it being a "must have" until after it's achieved good market penetration. hopefully it will start being bundled with either the motherboard or the GPU.

[schmosef]

I'd guess that the memory on the card is there to hold geometry and vertex info.

So if the co-processor was integrated somehow with the graphics card they might be able to share memory.

They problem I see is the same as the problem would be for a console manufacturer who wanted to add an optional upgrade to their hardware. The dev community would then have to decide if they wanted to support the optional configuration or target the core configuration. Sega was toying with the idea of adding an optional hardware upgrade to the Dreamcast when the PS2 came out and the rumour was that the hardware was complete, but they ultimately didn't go ahead with the idea because they didn't think that the developer community would target it. It's for this reason that MS has announced that if they release a HD-DVD upgrade for the 360 it will be for movies only and games will still have to be on DVD.

Now it's possible that with their Ageia PhysX SDK it will do the physics work in software and be able to take advantage of the hardware if available but game devs would still have to design their game engines to balance performance/visual quality by targeting a software only environment. Thus, the hardware might help, but it will never be fully utilized.

If a company like ATI or nVidia (or even Intel or AMD) licensed the tech and made it ubiquitous that would make it realistic for game developers to really take advantage of the hardware.

Also, if a console manufacturer like M$ or Sony added something like this to their next gen design, that would be really something.

[Jon P. Inghram]

I don't see what this could do that you couldn't also do just by sticking a fast ARM processor and some RAM on a PCI card. And then you could at least have a general function processor that you could make any kind of API you wanted on.

[Nowhere]

Now that Nvidia has announced that their GPUs will also accelerate physics (Havok engine), I reckon the thing from topic will be very short-lived...

[schmosef]

I read somewhere that the PS3 will have the Ageia tech. Maybe just the software library though.

[Jammrock]

Maybe just the software library though.

Correct.

[GT98]

Now that Nvidia has announced that their GPUs will also accelerate physics (Havok engine), I reckon the thing from topic will be very short-lived...

But the question of the hour is how much of a performance hit will the video card take when doing physics...also the Ageia might have better overall performance...

Futhermore, as much as this pains me to say this, IMO PC gaming is on its deathbed for the most part. Its almost impossible to find new releases at the "gaming stores" like EBworld and Gamestop. Its pretty pathetic that a mass market store like Target has a better selection, but they never have PC games out on their release dates.

[Nowhere]

Hmmm...now I'm not sure.
When browsing Wikipedia I've had an idea of looking at page about PhysX. From there I've found this page with info & videos (the only way to make physics justice)

http://personal.inet.fi/atk/kjh2348fs/ageia_physx.html

Very impressing (look at least at side_by_side.wmv - it's extremelly small)...and will be very soon on the market.

[Evildead666]

HW Acceleration on GPU will only be possible with an SLI setup. It uses a whole GPU, and in single card, thats all you have...
Also, the Havok engine (GPU Based phsyics) is expensive for devs, whereas Ageia is free to use.

I also think the Memory onboard is to alleviate the BUS bandwidth, be it PCI or PCIe, so 128Mb isn't that much.

I think VR-Zone has a good writeup on why Ageia is actually the most likely solution, compared to Havok, that steals one of your nice an expensive GPU's...and you no longer have SLI while this is in action. So whats the point. Just add an ageia card, and keep the SLI setup, much better.

Jez

[Evildead666]

Nope, it was the Inq.

http://www.the-inquirer.net/?article=30434

[Nowhere]

http://www.rojakpot.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=303&pgno=1

Nvidia SLI Physics will work also without SLI...

[Evildead666]

aha, me read.

Cheers.

[Helevitia]

Very nice trailer showing off the PhysX processor. Games are looking more and more promising.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=9867&pl=game&type=mov