Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Electrical Problems

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Electrical Problems

    So I’m sharing these recent events because they’re sadly comical and I could use some advice from any of you that have extensive knowledge of electrical wiring.

    I just moved back to Boston, Brighton actually, but same thing if you live here. Anyway, I love my new apartment but starting this last Sunday we've blown the power in the apartment 22 times in 4 days. The apartment is on the 3rd floor of an old Boston building. The entire apartment is running off one 15amp breaker. It seems the higher floors have gotten less 'love' than the lower apartments because the landlord could just drill a hole in the floor in the others and do the wiring himself. But since this is an old Boston building wiring is expensive so my landlord has been unwilling to do it in the past (he also says this hasn't been a problem from previous tenants). I don't know about the other tenants but this is how it works for us. If you run any one major piece of appliance such as a: microwave, vacuum or computer monitor and the fridge cycles it blows the breaker. If two major appliances are running and one has a surge from turning on/off, or you just bringing something small into the equation...it blows. The lights flicker when anything big turns on or switches gears (fridge, AC). We've swapped out all the light bulbs with energy efficient fluorescent bulbs. We've gotten in the habit of unplugging EVERYTHING in the apartment at night so we can run our AC's on low so we can sleep.

    We've both talked to the landlord and he was hesitant at first to do anything (cost), especially since it wasn't a problem for previous tenants. But when we explained how bad it was he started to be sympathetic. The thing that did it was the fact that if nothing else was running and you were heating something up in the microwave (bought in the last year I might add) and the fridge cycles the power blows. It’s also getting progressively worse and that ‘blend’ of stuff that would work fine will now blow the power. Of note is that the wiring leading from the breaker box is sufficiently warmer than every other apartment’s. Also, our meter is 3 times as high as everyone else’s as well. When my roommate called the power company to create our account he mentioned this and they said we had to deal with the landlord. When I last talked to the landlord he said he was going to have his electrician friend look at it. What I’d like to see done is the 15amp fuse replaced with a 20 or 30amp fuse (though I’m sure this will depend on wiring) and a separate line run up to the kitchen which will have it’s own breaker. I had a similar problem in a house out in Arlington when I lived in the area before and while not ideal made the problem more bearable.

    Anyway advice or comments? If I wasn’t having to go down to the basement 5-8 times a night I’d find this hysterical.
    Wikipedia and Google.... the needles to my tangent habit.
    ________________________________________________

    That special feeling we get in the cockles of our hearts, Or maybe below the cockles, Maybe in the sub-cockle area, Maybe in the liver, Maybe in the kidneys, Maybe even in the colon, We don't know.

  • #2
    and I've completely removed my computers from the mix. I won't subject my computers to this kind of thing even if I did have UPS's hooked up to them. Which reminds me I need new batteries for my UPS's so I can use them again
    Wikipedia and Google.... the needles to my tangent habit.
    ________________________________________________

    That special feeling we get in the cockles of our hearts, Or maybe below the cockles, Maybe in the sub-cockle area, Maybe in the liver, Maybe in the kidneys, Maybe even in the colon, We don't know.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, as a temporary fix, maybe you could somehow borrow power from a neighbor? Run an extension cord through the window and to your fridge or something, and throw them $20 a month?

      Short of that, it's either get the electritian in there, or nothing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Something is definitely wrong, let a proper electrician look at it (not the landlords friend).

        I don't know the specific of electrical regulations in the states so I can't really help you (only know the european ones). I even get the impression from you that everything is running on one power line which would be forbidden here in europe even in old buildings? And do you really trust the landlord? I suspect that there's a big power leakage somewhere or some old dodgy wiring. And don't change the fuse to a higher one unless you checked the wiring (the fuse depends on the wiring).
        Last edited by KeiFront; 15 September 2005, 12:38.
        Main: Dual Xeon LV2.4Ghz@3.1Ghz | 3X21" | NVidia 6800 | 2Gb DDR | SCSI
        Second: Dual PIII 1GHz | 21" Monitor | G200MMS + Quadro 2 Pro | 512MB ECC SDRAM | SCSI
        Third: Apple G4 450Mhz | 21" Monitor | Radeon 8500 | 1,5Gb SDRAM | SCSI

        Comment


        • #5
          You should make sure you have at least one 'ring', i.e. a cable going to your appt and returning, and not a spur (no return path).

          Also, 15A sounds very low. As your mains voltage is only ~120 (cf 230 here in UK) your appliances will be drawing twice the current we see here. Rings here are often 30A fused, and a typical house will have separate rings for mains (one per floor for example) and lighting (albeit at a lower rating), and things like showers and cookers will be on high-rated spurs.

          One 15A supply sounds woefully inadequate, even for a 2-bed appt. Dodgy if you ask me.
          FT.

          Comment


          • #6
            Word of advice: get renter's insurance.

            Comment


            • #7
              Extremely dodgy. Oh and the landlord IS one of my neighbors on the top 3rd floor, and HIS apartment has a 15a and a 20a breaker.

              One thing I left out is each apartment has a main 60a breaker that all the other breakers come off of. So the main 60a will kill the whole apartment and other apartments have their 2-3 breakers coming off of that. We have the one 15a.

              Personally it sounds extremely unsafe to me if not illegal. My parents place in Maine has a seperate breaker for every room in a two bedroom house. I think it's something like 12-15 breakers for the whole house (some rooms have more than one, my grandfather built this and didn't skimp on that).

              Personally, I don't want ot create problems with my landlord in the first two weeks. So depending on what he does as a 'fix' I might or might not throw up a snit. If he just replaces the 15a fuse or ups it to a 20a and calls it good I'll be very unhappy. This is why any info as ammo I get from you guys is extremely helpful. Of course I'll be doing my own research but it all adds up.

              Thanks everyone for your input so far.
              Wikipedia and Google.... the needles to my tangent habit.
              ________________________________________________

              That special feeling we get in the cockles of our hearts, Or maybe below the cockles, Maybe in the sub-cockle area, Maybe in the liver, Maybe in the kidneys, Maybe even in the colon, We don't know.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kooldino
                Word of advice: get renter's insurance.
                H*ll YES! Though if he 'fixes' it and it still burns down.... Let's just say I'm against sueing people on principle but I would in this case.
                Wikipedia and Google.... the needles to my tangent habit.
                ________________________________________________

                That special feeling we get in the cockles of our hearts, Or maybe below the cockles, Maybe in the sub-cockle area, Maybe in the liver, Maybe in the kidneys, Maybe even in the colon, We don't know.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I bet you have tried this already. At a peak time say when people are cooking or having baths. Try and turn everything off in your appartment and see if the electricity meter still goes round. Someone could be pinching your electricity!
                  ______________________________
                  Nothing is impossible, some things are just unlikely.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    just so you know, if it is 14 gauge wire, which is by far the most common in use in residential buildings, the max breaker amperage should be 15. Once such circuit is good for up to 12 "devices" which could be light fixtures or outlets.
                    Normal kitchen outlets are on a 14/3 cable, which means that the top and bottom plug is on a different breaker(well it is a double 15A breaker), and they alternate so that two outlets next to each other is not on the same breaker, so a minimum of 4 breakers are used for a kitchen counter. Today the outlets near the sink has to be ground fault interrupted, which is adding another breaker.. fridges are on their own breaker etc...

                    anyhow, how big is the cable running to your apartment?.. do you have your own panel?.. if so, you can run some wireing yourself and add an extra outlet for the fridge and maybe one for your microwave..
                    We have enough youth - What we need is a fountain of smart!


                    i7-920, 6GB DDR3-1600, HD4870X2, Dell 27" LCD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's some awesome info from both of you. We've tried unplugging everything and see if we were still leaking power after one of the outages. We might want to check it again during a peak.

                      We have our own panel in the basement so running it down from the third floor would be.... problematic. I'd have no qualms doing it if I could though. If I could get the main one replaced and just get something new for both the fridge and the microwave (good call) that would be most helpful.
                      Wikipedia and Google.... the needles to my tangent habit.
                      ________________________________________________

                      That special feeling we get in the cockles of our hearts, Or maybe below the cockles, Maybe in the sub-cockle area, Maybe in the liver, Maybe in the kidneys, Maybe even in the colon, We don't know.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        to make it easier to run upstairs, perhaps run a, say 40/60A cable up from the main panel ( that way you would only need to do it once) and add a small sub panel in your apartment, if there is room for it.. I just finished a major re-wireing project in my house ( which I had inspected and passed I may add) so if you have any more spedific questions, feel free to ask or PM
                        We have enough youth - What we need is a fountain of smart!


                        i7-920, 6GB DDR3-1600, HD4870X2, Dell 27" LCD

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey welcome back to Boston. I'm out in the metrowest suburbs.
                          Anyway, from what I've seen a lot of those old apartments in Brighton still have all Aluminum wiring or a copper/aluminum mix... which has more loss and less current carrying capacity. Therefore it heats up when its under a good load, which you noticed. Do you know how old the place is? I'm pretty sure thats against some tennant code to only provide 15A service to your apartment, and it sounds like the wiring isn't up to code either. I'd check with the greater boston housing authority and see what you can get the landlord to do, since that does not sound like reasonable and safe conditions.

                          Oh yeah, if the line gets warm already with a 15A breaker, you DON'T want a 20 or 25A breaker put in instead... you'll be asking for a fire.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i am not sure i understand the panel layout. Each panel (apartment) has a 60 amp feed breaker with one or more sub breakers (15, 20 whatever) . Each panel has it's own meter, i assume? You have a 60 amp feed breaker, with a single 15 amp circuit and that's it ?

                            And your electric bill is 3x everyone else, including your landlords ? sounds like something else is wired in downstream of your meter, maybe even directly into the 60 amp disconnect breaker in your panel. If you know what you are doing, you could take the cover off the panel and take a peek. Or else your loop makes a side trip somewhere. DOes everyone else have A/C, refrigerator in their apt.? A microwave will pull 13-15 amps on the heat cycle. An A/C compressor will pull about the same on motor start.

                            If your wiring is warm to touch that is normal under load. If it is hot, then something is not right.



                            The more that breaker trips the weaker it gets and eventually you will not be able to run much of anything. Also, it becomes a fire hazard, as it can develop carbon tracks internally, and then may NOT interrupt the current when you really need it. The breaker is only there to protect the insulation on the wiring ( and thus the surrounding combustables) and hopefully shut off soon enough on a dead short to prevent a fire. You can see if the breaker can be replaced. THat may help for a while. It will HAVE to be replaced when the problem is figured out anyway. THe problem in the panel also is likely that the feed wire to the panel is maxed at 60 amps by code. So you can shift the problem around, but may not solve it without a new drop from the mains. You cannot increase the amperage on the breaker unless the smallest wire on the loop is 12 guage or higher (10).

                            Is this 2 wire plugs or 3 wire ? Take off a receptacle cover to be sure. SHould be a Black or Red wire, a white wire, and a green or bare wire to the receptacle. IF there is only a Black/red and white, and the recepticle has three slots for the plug, then it is illegal and dangerous and you could get electrocuted if a device like a microwave, fridge,etc shorts to the case.

                            IF the wiring is Cu-Al, throw the breaker, take a volt meter at each plug and make sure you have no leakage or feed back (crossed neutrals and safety gnd), pull all of the plug recetacles out carefully, and TIGHTEN the screws on the wire. The Cu-Al wiring was notorious for getting loose. Heck good wire will get loose after 10-15 years of use and tightening the connections will help. If you have done wiring before, you could do the same at the panel . IF not DON'T TOUCH IT.

                            Get renters insurance for sure ! And find a different apartment if the owner will not update the wiring to the kitchen. Heck, it 'd be worth an extra 25$ a month to get the new circuit. It's likely the circuit could be run outside in conduit and then make an entry above you and drop in from the attic.

                            Frank
                            Last edited by degrub; 15 September 2005, 19:05.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If all else fails, get the Fire Dept. to make a safety check of the whole apartment block. Remember all those fires in Paris?
                              Brian (the devil incarnate)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X