MSP8 How to correct White Balance

[fberger]

I played with the new Color Correction video filter. It is very complex and probably powerful, but I was looking for a way to quickly correct a white balance issue. For instance one of those sequences where the camcorder takes a few seconds to auto adjust for indoor lighting. I am used to photo editing software where you can just click on a white object and the software takes that spot as a reference to automatically adjust the white balance of the whole picture.

How is it done in MSP8?

[Dr Mordrid]

The Auto Level video filter.

In the below example I took a Ulead example clip, tweaked the channels to simulate tungsten lighting and exported it. I then loaded the clip back in and hit it with the Auto Level filter.

Original



"Tungsten"



"Tungsten" w/Auto Level



Note the pillow.

Whatchathink?

Dr. Mordrid

[T-rex]

As stated in another thread.. I think that a "complementary color" eye dropper in the color correction filter (like Vegas, Final Cut etc..) will be the solution.. You have only to click the eyedropper in zone that should be white (or black or midtone) to correct the white balance..

If the Color Correction Filter is "work in progress" as stated.. I hope that Ulead will add this feature in the final release.. Also a "Show mask only" option when using the "region selector" in the Color Correction filter will be useful.. (The "marquee" used now is not very clear)

[fberger]

Auto Level filter is inadequate for white balance correction

The Auto Level filter is inadequate for white balance correction. I used one of my own videos which needs to be white balanced as an example and as you can see the result is not good. The walls in the video are pure white. In the original footage you can see the typical incandescent light yellow/organge coloring. If I let Mediastudio 8 auto level the walls become greying/purple, not white.

I hope Ulead can add this much needed feature to MSP8 before it gets launched.

Fred

[T-rex]

For comparison.. I've used the photo posted by fberger with the Vegas Color Corrector Filter.. using the "complementary color eyedropper" (in this image.. to correct the white balance i've used the highlight one..)

This is the result: See Attached screenshot..


As you can see.. in vegas there are six eye dropper (2 for high tones 2 for midtones, 2 for low tones..)



The three with the " - " sign are used for balancing the colors.. The image posted by Fberger has a red cast.. As stated in the previous post Using the complementary color eyedropper (high tones) you have only to click on a zone that should be white (the wall) and the software will adjust the colors (and in the color wheel the "white spot" will go to the Cyan/Blue zone to to compensate the red cast..)

[fberger]

I love the result T-Rex got in Sony Vegas from the capture I used as the example, it is perfect in my eyes. Exactly what I was looking forward to be able to do it MSP8.

I'll sure take a look at Vegas before I spend more $ on upgrading my license of MSP.

Terry and T-Rex, thanks for your help and time!

Frederic

[Dr Mordrid]

Now that I've had a chance to look at this with rested (photographers) eyes I've deleted my previous post.

The fundamental problem is an excess of red due to the tungsten lighting color temperature (2850K for a 100w lamp vs. daylights 5700K to 6500K). The problem is that with excessive red just playing with the blue channel isn't really enough to really balance things.

If, for example, you were mixing paint and got it too red you wouldn't add just blue, you'd also have to add white (lumance) to stop it from being to dark. That gets you into a complexity of re-mixing that may never get out of and you might even have to add green or yellow to really balance it. Ick.

To really fix it, and spend a lot less time doing it, you'd simply reduce the amount of red tint in a new batch.

With film if there is excessive red (ex: daylight flim in tungsten lighting) you add a color correcting filter, which most often are some shade of cyan (blue + yellow) and you compensate for them by increasing the exposure (lumance).

Same here but we can't re-mix the paint; fberger didn't set his manual white balance to indoor and auto WB often responds too slowly. The footage is shot and that moment will never come again.

We also can't just work with one setting because no matter how we do it, will also lower the brightness of the overall image, so we make it up by increasing the lumance setting.

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All images resized to 480 wide for bandwidth and fit to a standard width webpage.

fberger's source:



T-Rex's VEGAS result:



MSPro 8's result:



In the Color Correction control click HSL/Master. Next drag the saturation control point towards the center (de-saturate) or just move the saturation slider. Now up the lumance until it looks right

(all values case-by-case).

IMO this results in a more accurate skin tone, but if you want it more ruddy you can just not de-saturate it as much (~ -38 to -40 instead of -44). If you look closely the background details are a bit more visible because of the lumance increase.

Now...someone will ask "if I want to reduce red why use the saturation control and not modify just the red channel". Fair enough. The answer is that while reducing saturation will affect all 3 channels it will be more visually apparent in the red channel.

This isn't because the eye is more sensitive to red than blue or green, it isn't (yellow gets the honor), but red's more apparent vs. blue & green in the same way a red flower stands out against a background of greenery. Your eye isn't seeing it more, your brain is and that's often just enough.

Some might also ask if the desaturation of the red shirt is too much. Nope; remember that in 98% of cases the footage will be shown on a an NTSC or PAL TV and will have to have its red content clipped anyhow to be NTSC/PAL "legal". If red has to get clipped sooner or later we night as well do it sooner and make some good use of it.

This can also be done in the Color Correctors Level panel modding collective or individual channels, but it's more complicated and who needs that when just dealing with the saturation will work most of the time?

No matter how you do it once you get a good result you can save out the effect as a new preset using the ADD button and giving it an appropriate name (ex: Tungsten). You could even shoot 3 clips; one each with 40, 60 and 100 watt tungsten lamps & no in-camera correction then build a correction preset for each since they will each have their own color temperature.

MSPro 8's panel:



In MSPro 8's HSV control the pointer is actually a hand, but I couldn't get it to show in the screen capture so I subbed in a pointer instead.

While tools like an AUTO WB button in the RT.X100 and other programs is nice, they are no substitute for analyzing the root problem and acting accordingly....

Dr. Mordrid

[fberger]

Terry,

I see a few problems with the final result produced by MSP8:

1. Skin tone is too pale.
2. The shirt was actually bright red in reality and here it has become pink.
3. The parquet floor inthe back looks too grey

I used your expert method and tried to tweak the video to keep the shirt red, but was unable to obtain the correct results. I don't know how Vegas does it, or the other packages I use in photography, but their method with a picker is both faster and more accurate.

Of course the best thing would be to correctly adjust the camera before you shoot, but when you try to capture fist baby steps you just can't do that

Frederic

[Dr Mordrid]

It's all to taste, so here's another based on your feedback. Since he actually did a Color Balance I switched to that mode using r=0, g=24, b=39, just as a cyan film filter would do;

T-Rex's;



Mine (I still think his is too red in the face, so this is set to correct it);



Installable Tungsten 50 & 100 watt settings (load into video filters)

Dr. Mordrid

[Brian Ellis]

Had to add my CYP 0.02

Here I treated highlights with hue change and shadows with luminance. Maybe not automatic, but I feel the result is at least as good as any of the others, to my taste.

[T-rex]

The question is not if Mediastudio can do it.. It's surely can.

I think that MSP 8 is in many areas better than Vegas (nested timelines, Titler etc..) but other functions should be improved..


And i know that Ulead can do that..

An example ?

In Ulead Photoimpatc 10 there is a "Color cast" filter that gives fantastic results (better than Vegas see screenshot..)..


This filter has other "goodies":

- A zoom in/out tool -> The windows where you use the eyedropper in MSP 8 is too small.. If in Msp 8 we can't use the eyedropper in the preview windows (Why? Ulead added this functionality for moving path..) and this function will be a good replacement..

- A color wheel like the one in Vegas -> it's a bit too small.. but it's better and more user friendly than the one used in MSP 8..

I hope that someone at Ulead is reading our suggestions.. MSP 8 is a great product but with (small) improvemenst could be perfect

[Dr Mordrid]

You're missing a point.

We're basically argueing over what color of lipstick to put on a pig: cutesie interfaces for something very simple to implement and understand without it.

The Color Cast tool in PI-10's Photo menu is just such a cutsie interface tagged onto a very simple hue and saturation control. Basically it's 2/3 of a real HSV/HSL tool and is duplicated many times in PI's user interface in many forms so everyone can "get it".

In MSP8 you also have 3 color controls so you can work as you choose (that is, "get it").

First is HSL which uses the classic graph/channel approach;



also present is HSL, something akin to VEGAS's joystick control.



Finally there is the Curve control, something akin to PI-10's Tone Map graph which uses control points to create Beziers;



Please note that all of 'em have your eyedroppers and region selction to boot.

Personally I'm a KISS man (keep it simple, stupid), meaning I spend 98% of my time using the HSL controls sliders, eyedroppers and region selection tools.

Dr. Mordrid

[T-rex]

As stated before.. I don't doubt that MSP 8 can do that... And i know that the MSP 8 "Color Correction" gives more control than the "Color Cast" in PI10

BTW.. Probably the "color correction" in the public beta is a bit buggy: A question for Brian:

Your result is obtained using only the Color Correction Filter ?. If I select to work only on the highlight in the public beta.. and move the hue slider.. i obtain strange results (i will post a screenshot later.. only a small area of the wall changes..)

A question from the previous post: Why we can't use the eyedropper in the Preview/Source Window ? Any changes for the final release ?


I repeat.. Mine are only suggestions to improve a great product. I'm (and a lot of people on our forum can confirm) a Ulead Supporter

[Dr Mordrid]

The Preview window is the result of the CC. The proper place to be using the eyedropper is in the EM's source window and yes, the suggestion has been made to make it bigger.

Yes, the public beta is buggy just as Ulead warned in its release notes

Dr. Mordrid
.

[Brian Ellis]

A question for Brian:

Your result is obtained using only the Color Correction Filter ?. If I select to work only on the highlight in the public beta.. and move the hue slider.. i obtain strange results

Sorry, I may have misled you. I did a few trials before the definitive and I thought i'd reverted to the original, but it is possible that I had some legacy effects from previous ones. I know what you mean with what you say, but I honestly cannot remember what I did. Certainly, the effect obtained was by a small hue adjustment on highlights only but the highlights may have been modified slightly. Unfortunately, I haven't got the time to retry, just now, as I have some proofs to correct and send off today, so I have allocated myself just 1 hour for my correspondence and it is nearly up.