London again, terrorist...boom?

[Fluff]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4703777.stm

[GNEP]

Nothing serious. Detonators only at worst. I'm sitting at home just down the road from Oval. No helicopters around or mass of sirens worst than normal (although Oval is just opposite an unmarked police building of some sort... so they probably just wandered over )

[KRSESQ]

They're just screwing with you now. They just did that to show you they COULD have snuffed you if they'd wanted to.

Kevin

[Nowhere]

Why wouldn't they want to?

[KRSESQ]

They're saving their C-4 for something big.

Kevin

[The PIT]

Nothing serious. Detonators only at worst. I'm sitting at home just down the road from Oval. No helicopters around or mass of sirens worst than normal (although Oval is just opposite an unmarked police building of some sort... so they probably just wandered over )

Interesting the level of acceptance.

Nah not important is it , doesn't matter.

Wait until they up the anti which they will do as the attacks have been a relative failure.

[GNEP]

Well what else should us average citizens do? Cower in our homes never leaving? Life goes on. If I'm ever unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then I'll cope or not as best I can. Until then, I'll leave it to the proper authorities to do their job, and continue paying my taxes to make sure they do. (Well, when I start earning again I will...). What I absolutley refuse to do is to help whip up any sense of terror or hatred. Sorry if that disappoints you.

[Dr Mordrid]

The reports indicate that the detonators went off then the area was filled with white powder that in some cases burned.

This is consistant with an explosive called TATP (Triacetone triperoxide), the same stuff used in the attacks 2 weeks ago and by Richare Reed (the shoe bomber), that was either improperly mixed or had an improperly installed detonator.

TATP is popular with terrorists because it's a trioxide and not the usual nitrate, making it difficult to detect even with dogs or electronic detectors.

Most of the ingredients can be purchased at any drug or department store and are so commonly used and easily made as to be difficult to ban or easily control.

The problem with making TATP is that if not properly mixed it will either fizzle, as today, or blow up in the makers face at the least bit of shock or provocation.

Dr. Mordrid

[The PIT]

Well what else should us average citizens do? Cower in our homes never leaving? Life goes on. If I'm ever unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then I'll cope or not as best I can. Until then, I'll leave it to the proper authorities to do their job, and continue paying my taxes to make sure they do. (Well, when I start earning again I will...). What I absolutley refuse to do is to help whip up any sense of terror or hatred. Sorry if that disappoints you.

Perhaps I shouldn't have quoted you but general reaction has been so what. Probably due to wide spread coverage of all the sucide attacks in Iraq which has made it a non event from Terrorists point of view. People aren't shocked any more.

Neither have I suggested that you go round burning down Mosques and beating anyone up who you belief is a Muslim. It's a shame that you suggest that I want that.

What we do need to do as a nation is get these Anti Terrorist Laws through and stop anyone coming in preaching hate. Also stop worrying about the rights of person commiting these crimes and worry about the rights of the victimns and possible future victims. So they get deported and the country they're going back too has the death sentance. Tougth. As for ID cards pretty useless anyway as they wouldn't have prevented anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next attack was against a school at sometime in the future.

[Dr Mordrid]

Speaking as an outsider yes, the UK does need to pass the new Anti-Terrorist Laws.

I've long admired the stiff upper lip of those in the UK, especially during WWII, but it's time they lowered the hammer on the radical islamists who encourage, support and/or plan this kind of bulls***.

No, not ordinary muslims...I have no fight with them and many of them I call friend or neighbor....just the radical islamists who are taking everyone; muslim, hindu, buddhist, jew and christian, for a ride on the dark side.

Now for a bit of criticism: too often the UK, France, Germany and other countries have been trying to pacify islamic radicals by offering them sanctuary when they got in trouble at home, only to have their guests turn around and slap 'em in the face. This was the case in Germany prior to 9/11, the asassination of Theo van Gogh and it's very likely what's happened the last 2 weeks in London.

Time for the gloves to come off.

Here in the US we had far too many barriers to investigating terrorism after the Church Commsision of the 1970's over-reacted to Vietnam the Watergate scandals.

The regulations brought on by the Church Comm. made it virtually impossible for the FBI (investigations) to make use of information gathered by the intelligence agencies (CIA, NSA etc.) to prevent terrorist attacks against the homeland.

Only after we passed The Patriot Act did these walls come down, and as a result many attacks have been thwarted since 9/11 and many AQ cells have been broken up.

Of course many civil libertarians, on both the right and left, have wanted key portions of the PA to sunset (expire after x time interval coded into the law) and make changes to weaken the rest.

The attacks on London 2 weeks ago, and I'm sure the abortive attacks today, will probaly halt those efforts in their tracks.

Good.

Dr. Mordrid

[rylan]

Hmm.. interesting. So this was probably an attempted attack but they didn't make the explosives correctly?

[Dr Mordrid]

Exactly.

TATP is a white powder and reports say witnesses heard a "pop" (the detonator) follwed by a cloud of flour-like powder, some of which was burning. This matches exactly what would happen if a batch of TATP fizzled and was blown into the air by the detonator.

One witness said in an interview that she saw a young man throw down a backpack that was on fire shortly after the "pop"

This is enough to presume an attack until analysis shows the powder to be something non-explosive, which IMO is very unlikely

Also: TATP is a favorite of AQ.

Dr. Mordrid

[GNEP]

@TP:

Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate that you wanted to encourage anti-muslim behaviour. Apologies. You make valid points.

However, with regard to the anti-terror laws, I am still very reticent. And one of the main reasons it because the potential for feck-ups increases with the introduction of them. After all, it's not that long since the Guildford four and the Birmingham six were released is it?

[The PIT]

@TP:

Sorry I didn't mean to insinuate that you wanted to encourage anti-muslim behaviour. Apologies. You make valid points.

However, with regard to the anti-terror laws, I am still very reticent. And one of the main reasons it because the potential for feck-ups increases with the introduction of them. After all, it's not that long since the Guildford four and the Birmingham six were released is it?

Well theres always possible feck ups certainly when there is a media frenzies. The wmd frenzy springs to mind as does the news of the worlds anti pervert frenzy.

However we're too lax when confronted with these issues. You can sit there and let them do the religous/race hate or you can say no entry or deport. If you get one wrong thats better than letting ten walk around spreading hate and blowing people up.

Life would be easier if one community itself visably co-operated more in the past than it did. At the moment the ball is there court and it'll be interesting to see if they pick it up and run with it or kick it out of play. I feel that the younger element will kick the ball out of play as they've certainly become more isolated in recent years. The only Muslims that come into our pubs are the older ones zero youngsters. The older ones are in the late thirties upwards thats one hell of a gap. Why?? Well it's certainly not that they will get abuse. Do they belief that they will or is it a more sinister dislike/distrust of the company and life style. As a student we all used to mix and that was ten years ago so something has changed and not for the best.

[GNEP]

Man shot 5 times by plainclothesmen at Stockwell (that's my other local tube station...)