What part of NO.....

[Dr Mordrid]

doesn't the EU President understand?

France and the Netherlands should re-run their referendums to obtain the "right answer" if their voters reject Europe's constitutional treaty in imminent national ballots, Jean-Claude Juncker, the holder of the EU presidency, said on Wednesday.

The Luxembourg prime minister said all 25 EU member countries should continue their attempts to ratify the treaty whatever the outcome of the French and Dutch votes.

His comments reflect a mood of deepening pessimism among Europe's leaders about the outcome of the referendums.

"The countries which have said No will have to ask themselves the question again. And if we don't manage to find the right answer, the treaty will not enter into force," he said in an interview with the Belgian Le Soir newspaper.

Sheeshhh....if this is what he calls "democracy" then the EU pols need a dictionary

Dr. Mordrid

[Dr Mordrid]

More....

"It's their economies, stupid":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1061-1627759,00.html

Dr. Mordrid

[Umfriend]

Can I just state for the recored that: (1) most of the generalisations made in the Times may be appropriate to France, Germany and Italy, but are not valid for the Netherlands, depsite what the author claims, and (2) The suggested solution to get the EU economy to grow really confirms why I ussually take little notice of economic editiorials in newspapers. That guy does not understand the problems and suggests ineffective, possibly destructive measures, and (3) It's just gibberish.

Aside from that, it's not as if in a democracy certain issues don't ever come up after an initial vote, so in principle, I see no issue with putting something similar on the ballot at a later stage assuming though that either (a) "similar" means there have been real changes to the proposal, or (b) the situation of voters has changed significantly. Of course, in our (Dutch) case, they just think of us dumb cows (one of the reasons I'm voting aganst).

[Dr Mordrid]

Just as an outside observer;

the major problems in the European economies are exactly as stated: overblown governments with huge social budgets and too high interest rates (a function of the other two things noted). These result in slow growth, which translates into unemployment and the other economic problems Europe has been wallowing in for the last 30+ years.

In addition to this Europe is aging even faster than the US and Japan are. With fewer young workers to support the welfare state for the post-WWII generations the social budgets are even worse off than would otherwise be true.

This problem the US shares to a lesser degree in that its Social Security system will go bankrupt before the baby boomers die off, but our drop-dead date is further off then Europes.

Part of the problem is that the benefits in these states usually grow at higher than inflation rates. These baloon payments eventually bust the budget.

Like it or not; the social welfare states are collapsing under their own weight, mainly due to bureaucracies hitting critical mass. The money just won't be there for the benefits promised and the borrowing necessary to support them kills economic growth.

One fix that'll probably have to be made is to transition into private retirement accounts. These grow faster than government benefits, even counting the fluctuations in the markets.

By getting out of the retirement business government budget deficits go down and so do interest rates, which spurs economic growth.

Dr. Mordrid

[Brian Ellis]

The French PM has stated that if there is a no vote, there will not be a second referendum (presumably unless there are significant modifs on the issues the French people are worried about, notably extra-European immigration).

[KvHagedorn]

How is an economy supposed to grow at a "healthy" rate indefinitely? Do we really want to turn the planet into something like Coruscant.. a planetwide city? Honestly, I think a severe culling is in order, and mother nature will do this with a supervolcano or some other scary means. From the standpoint of economic growth, the best thing that happened to Europe was the plague. From that of cultural flowering, the thirty years war.

[Brian Ellis]

How is an economy supposed to grow at a "healthy" rate indefinitely? Do we really want to turn the planet into something like Coruscant.. a planetwide city? Honestly, I think a severe culling is in order, and mother nature will do this with a supervolcano or some other scary means. From the standpoint of economic growth, the best thing that happened to Europe was the plague. From that of cultural flowering, the thirty years war.

And how do you propose culling in the USA?

[GT98]

How is an economy supposed to grow at a "healthy" rate indefinitely? Do we really want to turn the planet into something like Coruscant.. a planetwide city? Honestly, I think a severe culling is in order, and mother nature will do this with a supervolcano or some other scary means. From the standpoint of economic growth, the best thing that happened to Europe was the plague. From that of cultural flowering, the thirty years war.

If it doesnt, it usally leads to a major war, with WW2 being a primary example of that. I laugh when people post about the worlds popluation needing to be culled, they never include themselfs in that culling though

[Umfriend]

How is an economy supposed to grow at a "healthy" rate indefinitely? Do we really want to turn the planet into something like Coruscant.. a planetwide city? Honestly, I think a severe culling is in order, and mother nature will do this with a supervolcano or some other scary means. From the standpoint of economic growth, the best thing that happened to Europe was the plague. From that of cultural flowering, the thirty years war.

I don't know. What I do know is that during the plagues, the economy was not growing at a healthy rate. Afterwards it may have been, but it is, at the end of the day, about income/production (and wealth) levels, not growth rates IMO. (And production levels took years to catch up with pre plague days).

[KvHagedorn]

Alright, blind people. I said mother nature will do the culling. Can't you read?

[Brian Ellis]

Some guys are not very PC, never heard of visually disadvantaged?

According to some pessimists, the next global cull is avian flu.

[Umfriend]

But you also said you though a major culling was in order. I understand that to mean it is something that should happen (as in, it would be good if it did)., maybe my lack of English understanding though, in which case, sorry.

[KvHagedorn]

It probably would be a good thing.. from a certain point of view.. perhaps in the overall big picture.

[Brian Ellis]

...provided it forgets "Somewhere in the West"???

[KvHagedorn]

I guess if you figure out where the big catastrophe is going to happen you should move elsewhere. Canada would be a bad place if it were a new ice age.. if yellowstone blows up, the whole western US would be bad.. and the volcanic winter which follows would be worse in northern areas. If a megatsunami happens along the east coast of the US I wouldnt want to be there.. asteroids could strike anywhere.. it's russian roulette.