field settings

[dasher]

Still struggling with jagged edges in DVD production.

Can anyone tell me the correct field settings in keyframe rendering for PAL. Upper or Lower field first?

Field options, Interlace or deinterlace?

Des

[Dr Mordrid]

The field order used depends on the source. For DV it's typically lower field first.

DVD's can be encoded as either interlaced or progressive (non-interlaced), but the RT.X's encoders typically encode field. I'd recommend field for field sources.

Dr. Mordrid

[dasher]

Thanks Doc

Des

[dasher]

Thanks for your help guys. Fixed the bloody thing. The DVD is perfect. Using RW discs to resolve and work through various settings (8 in all), I have managed to burn a final +r disc.

I have absolutely no idea why or how or why this particular taped event gave me so much trouble.

Could it be that the camera tape was imperfect?

Des

[dasher]

AARRRGGHHHH

After screwing around for more hours than I can count, posting here and in other places, getting assistance and trying all in various combinations, I have reverted to the default setting in Premiere and Matrox, captured and burned a dvd from a tape different to the problem one and AARRRGGHHHH. No problems.

I had loaned my camera to a family member and on checking the cameras settings discoverd that the mode was set to LP. After resetting to SP, I captured a short clip to the problem tape and again, no problems.

Lesson well learned.

Des

[Dr Mordrid]

In my experience that'll do it every time

Dr. Mordrid

[landrover]

Damn! I just learned [URL=http://forums.murc.ws/showthread.php?t=52223]
that DV is typically UPPER field first (as explained by Brian) and now you say the opposite, Doc. Or is there a difference between PAL and NTSC concerning field order? B.t.w.: alhough adjustable of course, Avid apps always default to upper field first...

[Dr Mordrid]

DV footage, PAL or NTSC, is always lower field first.

The difference lies between field order and field dominance. One is the linear order of the fields (field 1, field 2 etc.) and the other is which field is played first, and no; they aren't always the same.

The difference between NTSC and PAL is that with NTSC DV the top scanline is cropped off while in PAL it isn't. Because of this cropping NTSC's first played field is actually the second and not the first.

Even more hell arises because some software documentarians write order when they mean dominance and vice versa. Some also use obsolete terms as synomyms for Upper and Lower when they aren't.

This field terminology issue has been a pain for ages. Just use the field-whatever that works in your software and thank the Lord that it isn't even more confusing, not that it could be

Don't ask.

Dr. Mordrid

[landrover]

Don't ask.

Dr. Mordrid

I won't. I give up.

[dasher]

Me too

Thanks Doc


Des

[Brian Ellis]

Damn! I just learned [URL=http://forums.murc.ws/showthread.php?t=52223]
that DV is typically UPPER field first (as explained by Brian) and now you say the opposite, Doc. Or is there a difference between PAL and NTSC concerning field order? B.t.w.: alhough adjustable of course, Avid apps always default to upper field first...

My sincerest apologies. I got myself totally confused when I said that. Of course, DV is lower field first, everywhere. My only excuse for such a gross error, is that in older versions of MSP, it was called field A, while field B was upper field. Other apps have used 1 & 2 for either. Gawd Almighty! Is it any wonder that errors happen?

Notwithstanding, I feel utterly stupid for this aberration.

[dasher]

You're confused ???????

Upper field, lower field, dominant field, linear order!!!!!!!!!

It seems to me that the relevance of the situation is in inverse proportion to the concept of the configuration of a realistic appropriation of resources in relation to the effectiveness of the matter opposing the forces alinged to the spherical orbit of various complexities. Tee Hee

It's far easier dealing with complex formulations of veterinary medicines

[landrover]

Oh No, Brian!!
After last week's thread I spread your word on another forum which is generally visited by less informed video hobbyists. I sincerely apologized to those users for convincing them over and over again to opt for Lower Field first, and now I have to set it all straight again.
It still leaves me confused on the fact that some NLE apps (AVID) default to Upper Field first.

Does anyone of you know about a tool that can detect field order on captured files? VirtualDub can't, a.f.i.k.

[dasher]

I have just now taped a small segment. Saved in both upper and lower AVI and I can't see any difference.

If I have understood, this bears out what Doc has said. Just use whatever!

[Dr Mordrid]

Most software players deinterlace the image by blending the fields together, so that regardless of the field order the video will never appear to flicker on a computer because both fields are shown at the same time.

Because of this the simplest way to determine if you have the field settings correct is to play the video back on an interlaced monitor and adjust your settings accordingly.

Dr. Mordrid