PVR first look

[AndrewDV]

Hi,

If you read my previous message about the DVCII, then you know I was not completely happy with it. Not learning my lesson with experimenting <grin>, I decided to take a WinTV-PVR for a test drive.

The hardware is very simplistic to install. There is nothing really to it except a PCI card. To be honest, I am happy there is no BOB. The BOB tries to be convenient, but gets annoying once in awhile.

On the software side, the PVR is not as full featured as the DVCII. You get the basic capture utilies for S-Video/Composite, TV, and Radio.

I captured the same exact video from the DVCII test. Comparing the two, they are very similar. I would say the DVCII is slightly better, but that could be for numerous reasons.

The big test came next. Would the MPEG files be editable? Most definitely, they are editable in VS5 and MSP6. I can not wait for the MSP6 Ligos Patch. VS5 does a real good job with MPEG files.

I did the same MJPEG comparison as before. The MJPEG files had the same color benefits (including the green flashes <agh>).

After having some initial fun, I loaded up the MPEG files into my Dxr3 card. WOW! The files look great! I am truly impressed!

OK, what are the drawbacks? Well, the WinTV 2000 software is a little clutsy. Capturing AVI files is almost identical to the other WinTVs. When you get to full frame capture, you have to switch to preview mode (looks terrible). It does capture decent half frame AVIs, though.

Well, that is my first looks at it. To be honest, I really like it when paired with the Dxr3 card. It may be time to do a small project completely with it.

Thank you

[Jkun]

Andrew, how's the VBR of the PVR compared to the DVCII?

I have the PVR and am not happy with how little benefit VBR offers. DOes the DVCII perform better?

J-kun

[AndrewDV]

Hi,

In my case, I am having a better time with the PVR than the DVCII. The biggest problem with the DVCII is that the files have to go through a transcoding process (via MovieStar) to be fully compliant (ugh, I can do this with Huffyuv). From my understanding, the codec being used is different enough to cause these issues. Given I like to do editing, the MovieStar software is a big stumbling block.

As far as VBR with the DVCII, do not expect perfection. Oddly enough, the range tends to be half of the bitrate you set (ex: 8Mbs gets 4Mbs). There may be a way (key word being: may) to get this to work better, but I do not know the work arounds.

Don't get me wrong, the DVCII produces some nice quality captures. It is just so limited in what can be done with the files after capturing that bothers me.

If you want to learn more about the DVCII, check out:
http://stop.at/dazzle2

The crew that posts there are pretty knowledgeable about the product.

[AndrewDV]

Well,

I am kind of 'giving-up' on the DVCII. My reasons are not for the quality. The quality is very good. In some areas, it might even be better than the quality I am getting from my G400 (8Mb/s or 10Mb/s setting is really nice!).

The biggest drawback, however, is that the files have to go through a series of steps to get them into editable format (it uses a C-Cube Processor, why not compliant?). You have to use tools like MPEG2AVI or similar to get them to work in any other tool, then do a reverse process after editing. Too much work for something that is supposed to be simple!

On the PVR side, I do like this card. The full frame (720x480) MPEG files can be created with high bitrates (12Mb/s is the highest at this point, but can go up to 15Mb/s in theory). The files can also be edited! Thanks to Doc for mentioning smart rendering (previously, I shut this off), which allows very quick editing of files in MSP6/VS5 (get the patches).

The PVR also captures AVIs (decent quality is limited at 320x240, though). This is good enough for capturing animated programs.

The VBR of the PVR (say that 10 time fast) is not perfect, but better than the DVCII. The DVCII halves the value of your setting (8Mb/s turns out to be around 4Mb/s).

The standard software is pretty a-typical for Hauppage, but they have a programmer's interface (in a nice OCX mind you). This migh prove to be a good set of weekend coding projects. I'd like something simpler and less buggy <grin>.

I did not look at the on-board tuner yet. JKun, have you checked your grounding on your coax? I had some noise in the Marvel's tuner, but was corrected with better grounding. The other thought I had was that the system might not be grounded well (aka bad power supply). When I start having fun with the TiVo-like features, I'll keep you posted on my status.

OH, would I recommend the PVR over capturing with a Marvel? Well, only if:

-You want full frame/high bitrate MPEG2 and have a low end processor.

-Don't want to do the Huffyuv processing (hey, this doesn't work well for some folks).

-Have VS5, MSP6, or other software capable of editing MPEGs efficiently.

Other than that, stick with the Marvel. MJPEG still produces excellent quality for tape projects and is simple to edit. The YUY2/Huffyuv is great for VCD/SVCD. Also, Win2K support is right around the bend.

Well, hope this helps. I know it was hard for me to find any down to earth info on the PVR or DVCII. I just had to try it. In the end, I'm keeping the PVR alongside my trusty ol'G400 and Dxr3. For me, it is producing a real nice setup.

Thanks

[AndrewDV]

You make a good point that I left out. My tests are done in NTSC only.

That really does stink you are having that many problems.

This is off-topic, but have you seen the DVnowAV? It really looks great, but much more expensive than the PVR.

[KuroNeko]

I did a test grab via Svideo in NTSC. No problem. Yes it is a PAL issue only.

The Dazzle card you mention was designed by Fast even before Dazzle took over. Fast made good PAL cards, but now they've been bought by Dazzle I guess that's over too. The DVnow cards don't do hw MPEG2 though, which is what I need.

I'll try to find out more about DVCII PAL (although it seems a buggy card) and VideoXpert from Gainward.

In the mean time, maybe the DC1000 or RT2000 will do well, Mike's making demo file for DC1000 MPEG2 export.

Neko

[KuroNeko]

I own the WinTV PVR, have been playing with it for a month almost. And it's GOING! Worst piece of crap that's been plugged into my PC for a long time.

- color stripes in every PAL recording. Hauppauge knows about the problem but keeps saying it's people's computers. Well it's NOT. It's the crappy NTSC engineers that added PAL as an afterthought and haven't a clue on how PAL works.

- audio glitches. As in every minute one or 2 times you get a full volume screeching sound. Also known to Hauppauge, no solution.

- PAL tuner interferences. Tuner picture looks like crap, no matter how well earthed your setup is.

- NO SUPPORT whatsoever. You simply don't get replies when sending email. There's the unhelpful 'official' forum, which Hauppauge has given to a third (-rate) party. This forum doesn't even work properly (most of the time I can't get logged on even), posts 'disappear' etc.

I chose the WinTV PVR because friends recommended Hauppauge as a good brand. Well, this was my first and last experience with this brand. Their reputation isn't deserved at all.

Worst part is, Hauppauge claims all the bugs are 'normal' so I can't even get my money back!

Neko

[wkulecz]

Dazzle-FAST DVnowAV lacks the hardware MPEG encoder so its not in the same category.

I lost intrest in it when I found it captures to its on format instead of AVI or MOV.

--wally.