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  • #1

    ups considerations...

    Hello,

    After suffering a 5th power failure in 4 weeks (the area of Ghent has suffered about 20 power failures in this period, most lasting well over an hour - it has become so common it doesn't even make the news anymore ) I'm in the market for a UPS, but need some advice.

    First, there is the make: there are 3 makes I can get hold of: APC, Belkin and MGE.
    Any of these stand out? Any of these to avoid?
    (for use in Europe, 230V 50 Hz)

    Second, what sort of capacity would I need? This is the hardware, (*) indicates what I definately want to have in the event of a power failure (-) indicates what would be nice to have (for proper shutdown):
    * PC is a dual Xeon 2.4 with 2 10K SCSI disks (PSU=510 W cont., 650 W peak), Parhelia, ...
    * Eizo L568 (17" LCD)
    * Philips Brilliance 107 (17" CRT)
    * Lacie D2 Extreme (external FW800 harddisk, consists of 2 hdd in RAID0)
    * Belkin USB2.0 hub (USB storage and keyboard connected to it, also hosts a BT dongle)
    * Iomega Zip250 (external SCSI)
    - Agfa Snapscan 1236s
    - Canopus ADVC 110
    - Hiti Photoshuttle (dye sub photoprinter)

    I would love this to run for at least 20 minutes, of course, the Agfa, Canopus and Philips can be powered off by me in the event of a power failure.

    What kind of capacity would I need?
    Is 1000 VA adequate, or must I go to 1500 or even higher?

    I have noticed some Belkin devices have a possiblity of switching outlets on/off using software. This feature would also be very interesting in normal use (due to the large amount of external hardware).


    Jörg
    Last edited by VJ; 30 March 2005, 03:11.
    pixar
    Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)
    Tags: None
  • #2
    use the calculator here http://www.apc.com/tools/ups_selector/index.cfm this will tell you what to get
    Better to let one think you are a fool, than speak and prove it


    Comment

    • #3
      I have only my main monitor/and cpu powered by the UPS, the other peripherals are connected to the 'surge protected outlets' on the UPS. This gives me maximum run time while still being able to do whatever house keeping on the computer I need to.
      I've had both the MGE and APC models and found the APC more reliable. (I have had to send 2 of the MGE back for warranty)
      Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own lunar space lander! With blackjack aaaaannd Hookers! Actually, forget the space lander, and the blackjack. Ahhhh forget the whole thing!

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      • #4
        With that setup you'll want a minimum of 1250 VA
        “Inside every sane person there’s a madman struggling to get out”
        –The Light Fantastic, Terry Pratchett

        Comment

        • #5
          GT40: Yes, it seems the most logical. But I also like to UPS my external drives to minimize the chance of data loss.
          Dilitante1: Weird... That calculator gives me a 1000 VA unit with extra battery (as the bottom option, I would expect it to give higher rated equipment)
          Jammrock: Yes, I was thinking along those lines, but I'm unsure if this gives me 30 minutes...

          Does adding a battery to a unit increase its VA-rating, or only the autonomy?

          Is there a huge difference between devices that use 'Line Interactive' and 'True online' technology?
          (the APCs I'm looking at use 'Line Interactive', whereas the bottom devices of the 'True online' range of MGE seems also in my price range)


          Jörg
          pixar
          Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

          Comment

          • #6
            There are one or two very good pieces on this subject over at dansdata.com, I'd suggest reading them They will also explain the difference between line-interactive and true online UPSes, as well as tell you how to build your own UPS

            AZ
            There's an Opera in my macbook.

            Comment

            • #7
              az: I couldn't find them. I could find the DIY one, but I won't venture building one myself.

              MGE explains (very briefly) the differences between line interactive and true online; the latter is better, but is it that noticable a difference for a normal (?) user?


              If adding a battery increase the VA capacity, it would be interesting to consider a UPS which permits the connection of additional batteries... If it only increases the autonomy, it is of lesser importance (to me).


              Jörg
              pixar
              Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

              Comment

              • #8
                UPS site:dansdata.com - Google Search
                http://www.google.de/search?hl=en&q=UPS+site%3Adansdata.com&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=


                Also, read the DYI article, it explains a lot, whether you want to build one or not.

                AZ
                There's an Opera in my macbook.

                Comment

                • #9
                  While the difference between true online and line interactive is clear, the consequences aren't 100% clear. It is said that with the line interactive, there is a "switch" when going from powered to battery mode. Is this noticable for the attached hardware?

                  I'm leaning towards this model:
                  MGE Evolution 2200
                  404 Not Found
                  http://www.mgeups.com/products/pdt230/smallups/evol/techspecs.htm


                  The Evolution 2200 is € 847 wheras the Evolution 1500 is € 508. But the 2200 offers better expansion (and as weird as it may sound: a better form factor for me). So I'm willing to spring for the 2200...


                  If the true online is that important (and if the price difference isn't too big), I might choose :
                  MGE Extreme 1500C
                  404 Not Found
                  http://www.mgeups.com/products/pdt230/smallups/extremec/specs.htm


                  I don't know the price, but I estimate it to be up to par with the Evolution 2200. Now, as the Extreme 1500C also offers expansion, it seems a valid candidate. But it would offer me less autonomy... I'm guessing the Extreme 2200C is too expensive for me.

                  Any comments?
                  My alternatives seem to be: line-interactive 2200 VA, or true-online 1500 VA...
                  (I'm tempted by the 2200VA)


                  Jörg
                  Last edited by VJ; 31 March 2005, 02:16.
                  pixar
                  Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    One more question: the spec sheets say: "sound emission: 40 dba".

                    Does this noise also occur when the is no load on the UPS (i.e. PC powered down)?
                    (I have a small one-room appartement, so the PC is in the same room as my bed........)


                    Jörg
                    pixar
                    Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      When you power the PC down, just power the UPS down as well. But it shouldn't really be that loud (or audible at all) with no load, if properly designed.

                      The switching in line-interactive models is measurable, but it shouldn't interfere with your hardware (that's one reason for the big electrolytic capacitors in the PSU: bridging very very short blackouts)

                      AZ
                      There's an Opera in my macbook.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by az
                        The switching in line-interactive models is measurable, but it shouldn't interfere with your hardware (that's one reason for the big electrolytic capacitors in the PSU: bridging very very short blackouts)
                        Ok, so as they sell the line-interactive models, I doubt I'll see much problems with it...

                        I'll probabely order the Evolution 2200 tomorrow (want to read up on some things).

                        I'm still a bit puzzled by the battery extension: if you add a battery, does it simply become a bigger UPS (thus supporting more load and/or more autonomy), or does it keep its maximum load and simply increases the autonomy?



                        Jörg
                        pixar
                        Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          If you're UPSing, I reccomend adding a desk lamp with an energy saver bulb to your UPS load.
                          Having your PC, Monitor and Printer humming away is a bit pointless if all the lights are off and you're working the keyboard by the light of the screen
                          Athlon XP-64/3200, 1gb PC3200, 512mb Radeon X1950Pro AGP, Dell 2005fwp, Logitech G5, IBM model M.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RichL
                            If you're UPSing, I reccomend adding a desk lamp with an energy saver bulb to your UPS load.
                            Having your PC, Monitor and Printer humming away is a bit pointless if all the lights are off and you're working the keyboard by the light of the screen
                            Maybe something LED-based. A friend of mine has a kickass little 4 LED lamp with a flexible neck that plugs into her laptop's USB port.
                            Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wombat
                              Maybe something LED-based. A friend of mine has a kickass little 4 LED lamp with a flexible neck that plugs into her laptop's USB port.
                              I've been meaning to get one of those USB-LED lights just for a laugh, but the online store was always out of stock when I was ordering other bits.
                              Athlon XP-64/3200, 1gb PC3200, 512mb Radeon X1950Pro AGP, Dell 2005fwp, Logitech G5, IBM model M.

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