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2D Quality (again!) - is a P650 better than a low end ATI or nVidia on CRTs??

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  • 2D Quality (again!) - is a P650 better than a low end ATI or nVidia on CRTs??

    90% of my day is spent looking at text on CRT's - do Matrox still have an "edge" over the 2D sharpness of low end ATI's or nVidia's?

    I'm running three CRTs in independent resolutions on 2 x G450s and I'm contemplating an upgrade to a dual PCIe SLI platform that I would not run as SLI as I have no need for 3D. I could do this (in order of expense) with one Matrox QID, two PCIe P650s, or two low end PCIe offerings from ATI or nVidia. Two cards in a SLI mobo will keep the PCI bus free for my SCSI subsystem!

    Mobo I'm looking at is a Tyan Thunder K8WE dual opteron. I'd be happy with the bottom of the barrel PCIe ATI's and saving a couple of hundred dollars *if* the 2D text is sharp or better than my G450s. I tried an AGP GeForce 5200FX and text was noticably blurry.... I have no experience with ATI cards or any "modern" cards
    Last edited by shanebrooks; 20 March 2005, 22:09.

  • #2
    I'd get the K8WE with onboard SCSI (that is a very sexy motherboard). Even if not, it has PCI-X slots, so they should not bottleneck your SCSI host.

    Good quality nV or Ati card from reputable maker might be OK. But with Matrox you get:
    - better multimonitor support
    - P650PCIe now has pivot function
    - dual DVI for upgrading to CRTs latter (low to midrange Ati or nV come with VGA and DVI)
    - also if you don't game, you don't upgrade video card often, so P650 will probably serve you for a few years*

    *Not that Longhorn is arround the corner so you will need DX9 for glass experience, however now it's too early to tell what exactly will it require and which card to get for it. Considering majority of computers (50-60%) are shipping with intel extreme graphics...


    Otherwise I'm thinking in same lines as you for my future hardware upgrades (dual CPU SLI motherboard with 2 dual cards for a workstation) but I will wait for a while as dual Athlons@2.26 are plenty fast.
    Last edited by UtwigMU; 21 March 2005, 00:26.

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    • #3
      Longhorn should be "runnable" even on old cards, only the advanced features will be disabled.

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      • #4
        Oh yes the K8WE is s.e.x.y! I'm planning on a pair of Opteron 250's with 4G of RAM.

        P650's will certainly do the job - but its hard getting past the AUD$800.00 (for two) vs a pair of ATI Radeon X300SE for AUD$180 (for two). In reality I might be able to get a Matrox QID cheaper than 2x650's!! ( and then I dont need an SLI mobo!) I take the point about the dual DVI though my CRTs are firmly entrenched as they have no resale value anymore to offset the AUD$2100.00 to replace them with suitable LCDs.

        so the question is still on the table - hows the analogue 2D text quality of an ATI Radeon X300SE vs a P650? what about slightly higher end ATI/nVidias?

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        • #5
          In general, Matrox is still best in 2D analog (even if the P is not that much better than a good Sapphire ATI-based board).

          I don't know where you'd find a QID cheaper than 2x P650, the PCI (compatible with PCI-X too) version is much more expensive than the AGP one (if you go AGP, you don't go PCI-E SLI). Even the G200MMS Quad is about the same price as 2x P650 PCI-E. Which means...the P650 is the better option.

          You can always get 2 Sapphire X300SE DVI cards and see if the quality is satisfying... if not, you can easily resell them ('cause they're cheap) and get the 2 P650.

          Don't go for a cheap ATI-Powered card, get Sapphire or ATI (built by ATi - but it's only available in the US). Asus et al also suck, so don't get fooled by the brand.

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          • #6
            Generally non SLI Opterons motherboards with PCIe also lack PCI-X slots, although we'll have to see how Iwill, Asus and Abit do. Personally I'd go with Tyan and Iwill. You can also wait a bit for prices to fall, for instance I saw Parhelia AGP8x for 200 Euros if you buy 10-pack.

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            • #7
              With ATI & nVidia, the board manufacturer matters, not the chipset so much. I'd go with an ATI/Sapphire card. My ATI 9800Pro is very good. Better than the (good) Gainward GF3Ti I had. On my 19" Trinitron I can't see a difference between it and what my Parhelia used to look like.
              Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

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              • #8
                Shane's posting again and now I've got a real thirst.
                Attached Files
                <TABLE BGCOLOR=Red><TR><TD><Font-weight="+1"><font COLOR=Black>The world just changed, Sep. 11, 2001</font></Font-weight></TR></TD></TABLE>

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                • #9
                  Drink up!

                  Thanks for the comments. I wasn't aware of the relationship between Saphire and ATI.

                  When I had 3 monitors running from a Parhelia I found that the Y splitter cable from the single header may sacrifice some image quality due to crosstalk or interfence. I certainly saw far more ghosting on the third screen when using the parhelia than I see with my second G450. My take on this was simply the proximity of the analogue signals when splitting off a single DVI header. This in part is steering me towards a dual card solution (P650's or ATI) rather than a QID. In fact I passed over an AGP QID on ebay that sold for US$360 - a bargain!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by UtwigMU
                    Generally non SLI Opterons motherboards with PCIe also lack PCI-X slots, although we'll have to see how Iwill, Asus and Abit do. Personally I'd go with Tyan and Iwill. You can also wait a bit for prices to fall, for instance I saw Parhelia AGP8x for 200 Euros if you buy 10-pack.
                    I'd like to see that - could have been an inventory sale from a bankrupt company.

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                    • #11
                      I do have a Matrox G400Max and a Club3D(ATI) R9700Pro, having the same CRT (old Hitachi cm766 1280*960*85Hz), and i dont see any difference. Both looks absolutely perfect.

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                      • #12
                        Make sure the card has aluminum capacitors as they are usually a sign of higher quality. The goofy shaped PCB cards that are usually for super cheap sale (9200s and 7500s often) aren't a good sign either. Many 9600s are also built very cheaply.

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                        • #13
                          Since this thread was brought up yesterday I will post in it

                          In australia the most accessible brands for ati are Powercolor, Gigabyte and GeCube. Are any of these based on a sapphire board design. We do have sapphire here but they are slighly harded to find.

                          have you been to www.atomicmpc.com.au. this forum has an excelent listing of Aus pc shops in the video card price watch thead. You can hunt through those to find a cheaper price on a p650 or use the thread to find cheapest price on ATI.

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                          • #14
                            Powercolor is not as good, GeCube I don't know about and Gigabyte are OK but not Sapphire's level.

                            If you want that kind of quality, there's really only 2 brands: ATi and Sapphire. BUT, ATI only sells in the US. Leaving thus Sapphire...

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                            • #15
                              [rant mode]
                              Why the **** Sapphire put a tiny whiny fan on 9550 when 9600 is doing fine with passive cooling? 18€ more just for silence. And the fact that Pro (but also with fan...) is 5€ more makes it even more complicated decision
                              [/rant mode]
                              But I can't afford it for at least 2 months anyway...

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