Capture NTSC VHS With a PAL Capture Card

[ses]

Regards from Sweden.
Has anyone had this sort of problem? Living in Europe with the PAL video format, I needed to purchase an American NTSC VHS machine to convert my NTSC VHS tapes to digital video as my capture card could not handle PAL 60 format.
What I get now with an NTSC VHS machine is an odd situation where as you can see, the left half of the image will "blink" to a sort of "negitive" form of the image.
This film was black and white, but the effect is the same with a color film. I tried to deinterlace, but the problem persists.
This usually occurs at the start of a program, but sometimes it can continue through the entire recording. Running the NTSC through my TV set, I get a fine picture.
I have no problems with dropped frames, no sync problems, just what you see in the image that I have included.
I am using the iuVCR program to record in avi format and using TMPGEnc for compression to mpeg2 with an nVidia based Personal Cinema FX5200 card. Using the software that came with the card, I still have the same problem.
Does anyone have any ideas?

[Marshmallowman]

Could it be that the flavour of ntsc you are using is not quite right?

[LvR]

Is your machine a true NTSC machine or a "playback NTSC on PAL" job?

So exactly where is it you see this horrible pic given you say "Running the NTSC through my TV set, I get a fine picture." ........................ is it on your PC after its gone through the capture card?

Is your capture card set to capture in PAL or NTSC? - if its PAL I would say your results here is to be expected as the "NTSC playback thing on PAL" does not produce a standard PAL signal but rather a quasi PAL signal that is not good enough to ensure syncing of capture-card servos...........

[ses]

Good morning gentlemen,
Thanks for your replies. to answer your questions first, LVR:
Yes, it is a true NTSC VCR, a Sony SVL N750 bought in the US. Thie image that you see is a screen shot from video recorded in the computer. The image has gone through the capture card.
The capture card, bought here in Sweden, is a PAL card which is able to read NTSC.
I am supposed to be able to record in NTSC M; NTSC MU and NTSC 433. I can add that commercially purchased NTSC VHS tapes do not create this problem, it is only home recorded tapes that do this. It doesn't occur with all of my home recorded tapes either, nor is it restricted to particular brands of tape. All of these tapes were recorded by the same machine, which was a Mitsubishi VHS machine when I lived in the US during the 90's
I assume that your question, Marshmellow Man refers to one of these three types of NTSC, I have tried all three, but encounter the same problem.

[Brian Ellis]

It would certainly seem that your card simply does not accept NTSC. Are you sure there isn't a PAL-NTSC jumper on it? If there isn't, and there is no software choice in the drivers, I'm afraid you will be obliged to find another solution, such as a card or external unit that accepts both formats. I have no problems using my ADVC-100 with both formats.

[LvR]

Good morning gentlemen,
Thanks for your replies. to answer your questions first, LVR:
Yes, it is a true NTSC VCR, a Sony SVL N750 bought in the US. Thie image that you see is a screen shot from video recorded in the computer. The image has gone through the capture card.
The capture card, bought here in Sweden, is a PAL card which is able to read NTSC.
I am supposed to be able to record in NTSC M; NTSC MU and NTSC 433. I can add that commercially purchased NTSC VHS tapes do not create this problem, it is only home recorded tapes that do this. It doesn't occur with all of my home recorded tapes either, nor is it restricted to particular brands of tape. All of these tapes were recorded by the same machine, which was a Mitsubishi VHS machine when I lived in the US during the 90's
I assume that your question, Marshmellow Man refers to one of these three types of NTSC, I have tried all three, but encounter the same problem.

Given all of that and the fact that you get a decent pic on the TV I may have another solution if your TV has AV output sockets...........

Connect your capture card to those while playing back the tapes and see if the TV is able to somehow improve matters a bit for the capture card........

The capture card, bought here in Sweden, is a PAL card which is able to read NTSC.

Not sure I follow the technical implication of that................

either its an multistandard card or its not..........

[Nappe1]

It would certainly seem that your card simply does not accept NTSC. Are you sure there isn't a PAL-NTSC jumper on it? If there isn't, and there is no software choice in the drivers, I'm afraid you will be obliged to find another solution, such as a card or external unit that accepts both formats. I have no problems using my ADVC-100 with both formats.

I think capture side is multi-standard already in all tv-cards and all-in-wonder devices. You only need define NTSC from the video input setup. I am not sure how this is done in iuVCR, but in Virtual VCR it's done from Video leaflet in setup dialog. (it is usually in device properties.)


Also, remember that Full NTSC is 640x480@29.97fps while FULL PAL is 768x576@25fps. (this assumes 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, while you can basically oversample more pixels per lines as much as your capture card allows. How much oversampling does the difference, is again different question that Nyqvist theorem answers, but that's different story. )

after all this techno mumble, as a short: NTSC VCR gives out NTSC signal, so your tv-card has to be set up acordingly. As multi-norm devices, they might do (or then do not) conversion to Main norm. (my Sony SE800 can receive record and play PAL and SECAM in SP and LP. in case of NTSC, it needs a change in switch on backplate. (haven't tested PAL-60, because of missing sources. )

[VJ]

Given all of that and the fact that you get a decent pic on the TV I may have another solution if your TV has AV output sockets...........

Connect your capture card to those while playing back the tapes and see if the TV is able to somehow improve matters a bit for the capture card........

Yep, that would be my suggestion as well.

However, my TV supports NTSC inputs on its AV input sockets and then switches to a true NTSC mode (perhaps it is a PAL 60, but Philips calls it 'true NTSC' ). I don't know what is sent via the AV output sockets, but I wouldn't be suprised if it still was an NTSC signal.
And if that is the case with ses' TV, it could well yield the same output as what comes in...

Second guess would be to double check the capture hardware and software for NTSC settings. If it is supported (as you claim), it should work.


Jörg

[ses]

Good Morning, Nappe1,
Hmmm, now there's an idea. I'll have to try setting the figures to 640x480. They are higher. In iuVCR, it is much the same as Virtual VCR as far as setting NTSC or PAL. In regards to your question, Brian. I'll have to open it up and take a look. According to the card's specs, it is supposed to handle both formats right off the bat.
I'll get back to you all later, among other things, it's time for a diaper change on my 7 month old! i could hear it coming as I write!

[ses]

I double checked the settings and iuVCR sets the figures to 640x480. I will have to take more time to rip the computer out of the stereo cabinet and check for possible PAL/NTSC jumbers on the card, will get back to you all over the weekend so do check in.
As far as trying an AV output, I have thought of that too, but unless I can get an output via the scart cables, I don't think that's possible on my set. I must admit, I was surprised that it could play the NTSC signal as it's just a cheap Gold Star TV set!
Thanksfor all your replies!

[ses]

I double checked the settings and iuVCR sets the figures to 640x480. I will have to take more time to rip the computer out of the stereo cabinet and check for possible PAL/NTSC jumbers on the card, will get back to you all over the weekend so do check in.
As far as trying an AV output, I have thought of that too, but unless I can get an output via the scart cables, I don't think that's possible on my set. I must admit, I was surprised that it could play the NTSC signal as it's just a cheap Gold Star TV set!
Thanksfor all your replies!

Well, there was no PAL/NTSC jumper and the brochure also comfirms that the card is PAL/NTSC compatible. If you look real close at the lieft image, you can se that it is a copy of the right image. You can see it in the cloud formations.
It's a mystery why it dosn't do this with commercially bought NTSC VHS films, only home recorded films and not all of them either.
I wish I had another VHS machine to test with, that would be interesting.