Which camera?

[J1NG]

OK, complete newbie into the Digital Camera area.

I got a maximum of £350 (absolute max, prefer to be around £150 to £250) to hit on a new camera with. I have a good Dye Sub printer to play with anyway, so something that can take advantage of it won't be bad (so even if it's a bit more, do suggest it).

Anyone with any good recomendations?

I do have another £150-£250 (which can go on top of the camera) reserved for a new mobile too (that has a good camera and can do 30fps). So if anyone knows of a phone similiar to the Docomo Mitsubishi D901 (2Mpixel 30fps), or something similar that can do (a poor but reasonable job, ie 2-4MPixel 30fps) of the digital camera instead, do tell. The only requirement is, it must be operatable in the UK networks (3G probably, but that's not really a problem so long as it's UK network workable).

Just been asked on the other day (my birthday) what I wanted, so I'm making a list up. Other stuff like the K8WE board is on it.

J1NG

[VJ]

A first question would be: what would you use the camera for? Esp. as you are also considering a mobile as an alternative: usually, the quality of those cameras is relatively poor, and they lack quite a number of features (focus (!), exposure settings, zoom, ...)... On the other hand: one always has his phone with him.

I thought that LG and Samsung have the highest pixel count...


For cameras, I usually recommend this as a starting point: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
(the prices you can select are the prices at time of release, so take this criterion lightly)

Bear in mind that for your price, you also must have storage cards (it could be interesting to have some that you could share between camera and mobile) and batteries (most simple cameras work on AA or AAA batteries, but going the rechargable route is almost imperative).


Jörg

[J1NG]

Well, I suppose I'd like the Digital Camera to be used for general snaps, but occasionally be called to do some finer images too when required (I'm a graphics and photo imaging guy). Something with a high MPixel? I suppose the size of the camera should be relatively compact too (I'm not doing studio pics here ).

The Camera phone was suggested as I just wanted such a gadget, but I suppose I'm going off the idea too right now.

J1NG

[VJ]

Well, I suppose I'd like the Digital Camera to be used for general snaps, but occasionally be called to do some finer images too when required (I'm a graphics and photo imaging guy). Something with a high MPixel? I suppose the size of the camera should be relatively compact too (I'm not doing studio pics here ).

While more megapixels can be interesting (mainly for cropping images), it isn't the only thing that impacts image quality. In that aspect, it is often better to go for a megapixel less, but much better lens.

There are quite a number of manufacturers (Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Minolta, ...) that offer compact cameras that still perform decent.

One thing to look out for is shutter lag. This site

http://www.imaging-resource.com/

times the shutterlag for the cameras they test. Shutter lag is the time between pressing the release button, and the actual time the photo is made. In analog, this was instant, in digital (esp. in the "cheaper" range) there can be a delay (and having almost a second between you pressing the button and the camera making the picture renders the camera virtually useless for photographing anything that moves).
They also have a camera selector that is worth checking out:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/cgi-bin/m/pl.cgi?cajs

Do you have any preferences regarding storage cards?

The Camera phone was suggested as I just wanted such a gadget, but I suppose I'm going off the idea too right now.

I personally feel it still is a bit too early. No cameraphone offers proper focussing (and locking), exposure alterations or even an optical zoom.

Even the simple cameras (i.e. Canon SD10) will outperform any phone at this time.


Jörg

[J1NG]

As for storage. No, I don't really have a preferance right now. My current mobile of Nokia 6230 is a MMC storage card system (Currently has 256MB card), and my Digital Camcorder (from Sony) uses the Memory Stick (Pro), currently at 8MB. So either of those types won't be a problem. I'll just have to expand the Memory Stick for a Sony camera.

As towards the Camera phone, the Docomo Mitsubishi D901 has autofocus, and optical zoom x2, but only 2MPixel capable of capturing at 30fps (But it's still better than anything in the UK has, with a current Max of 1.3MPixel at 15fps). But lacks any other detail. (I just wanted it as a toy )

Anyway, currently looking at the following possible cameras. What's everyone's take on them? Currently, to me the latter one's have higher MPixel (7+), and slightly newer releases, but unsure as to their other capabilities are nice enough in comparison to others. Read something about their series might be one of the less good ones. (eg W series is crap in comp to S series, etc.)

Canon Powershot S70, S60, A95, A520 A85, SD500
Sony Cybershot DSC-T1, P200, DSC-V1, DSC-W1, DSC-W7
Olympus Camedia C7000, C60, C5500, D595, D545

J1NG

[xortam]

The Canon S70 fits my needs fairly well (small, light-weight, manual settings, wide-angle lens) but it's not perfect. This is my first digicam so I expect most all of my dissatisfactions are fairly universal among digicams. One major problem I've had is light streaks on dark candle-lit scenes. I still need to play more with some settings to see if I can reduce the light-streak anomaly. My aging eyes also have difficulty reading data on all the digital viewfinders. I looked for the largest viewfinders I could find. I found the easiest way to find the right camera was to first use DPReview's camera comparison site, carefully select your highest priority requirements, and start qualifying from there. You can look at the on-line reviews of the candidates and inspect the test photos yourself. I then went out to the local shops and started actually playing with the candidates until I found the best fit. You should get your hands on the cameras to see: how the grip feels to you ... interact with the functions, especially the most frequently used operations ... check out the viewfinders and under various ambient light conditions ... check the lens zoom speed and the ability to set the zoom right where you want it, etc. I only had a handful of candidates I needed to personally inspect because I had some strict requirements that very few cameras came close to fulfilling.

[J1NG]

Well, I suppose I'm not too bothered about taking moving images. So the shutter lag thing is probably not too much of an issue for me. (When most of the images are likely somewhat posed, there's little point in having a fast shutter). So I suppose a good lens and/or high MPixel is what I should be looking at.

The MPixel thing is easy enough to see, but what about the lens? Anyone got a good recomendation for that?

I usually don't go out and try, but I just might for this. Thanks for the help all.

J1NG

[lecter]

The best camera on Western available mobiles right now is on the Sony Ericsson S700i-a real CCD sensor and 1.3MP. SE has also launched the new K750i which features a 2MP camera with autofocus (but probably a CMOS sensor)...both of them make pretty good pictures from what I saw. Another alternative is the Sagem my-x8 which I think also has a CCD sensor and comes with a lower pricetag.

As for cameras, I like the Exilim series from Casio...very compact, Pentax lens, nice big LCDs for viewing pictures and a decent price tag.

[xortam]

Well, I suppose I'm not too bothered about taking moving images. So the shutter lag thing is probably not too much of an issue for me. (When most of the images are likely somewhat posed, there's little point in having a fast shutter). ...

The shutter speed and shutter lag are two different things. Shutter lag has to do with the time it takes to capture the photo after you've depressed the shutter release button. Shutter speed defines how long the shutter is open and how much light is exposed to the sensors. You're subject can easily move out of focus and/or frame if the camera has too long of a shutter lag. You will get blurring if the shutter speed is too long. A fast shutter speed isn't just for stopping action of the subject. The shutter speed is also tied to the aperture size which affects the depth of field (forward to backward range of focus).

It sounds like you're interested in a simple to use snapshot camera rather than a photographer's camera so you probably don't need manual settings. You probably won't notice much difference in lens quality either so you shouldn't be too focused on that. Find something that fits your hand and stores away the way you want (compactness and shape) and has controls that you're comfortable with. Don't get hung up on MP count. Higher MP count cameras are mainly for larger prints and/or greater amounts of cropping (chopping off what you don't want). You might want to consider the movie features of many digicams (how long and what fps) as I find that a very handy feature to have along with my photos. I bought a 1 GB CF card just so I can take many movies with the S70 ... it's been great to have.

[VJ]

The Camera phone was suggested as I just wanted such a gadget, but I suppose I'm going off the idea too right now.

Give it time:

http://www.betanews.com/article/Samsung_Demos_7MP_Camera_Phone/1110384362

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0503/05030901samsung_schv770.asp

Jörg

[J1NG]

Now I wouldn't mind that camera phone there. A shame I won't see one till 2007 at least in the UK.

Now, I'm kinda settling down to the Sony DSC-W5, Sony DSC-W7, Sony DSC-P200, or the Casio Exilim EX-Z750. Now, of these, only the first three are available in the UK now. And I've also got a Sony MiniDV Digital Camcorder too that uses Memory Stick (Pro), that can be used between the Sony camera's too.

Now, I'm kinda more inclined towards the DSC-W7 and P200 here all things considered. So if anyone else can recommened something, in the next couple of days will be swell. Otherwise, it's likely one of these two.

Currently, it looks like it's really down to the battery here between the two Sony's. The P200 has the worse shape (don't really like the rounded end), and has infolithium battery (which seems better), and (oh so slightly) costs less (Oh, and a 1/2000's shutter). Whilst the W7 has a better shape (rectangular), but uses 2 AA batteries (2 NiMH rechargable provided) and costs about £20 more (and only a 1/1000's shutter).

Anyone able to tell me which power method is better for me? Currently, the only thing putting me off the W7 is the battery, but they're rechargable. Any advice appreciated in the final stretches here.

J1NG