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View Full Version : Advise for my new toy, while it's batteries charge



Kruzin
2nd July 2004, 19:04
Ok....believe it or not, I've been using this same keyboard since my first 486/dx33. Never wanted to give it up, cause nobody makes a decent 'clicky' keyboard these days.
Ya know, I've never even had a windows 'start' key :p
I run the KB on an AT-ps/2 adapter plug.

Been using the same Logi 'cordless mouseman wheel' since my P2-400.
Never owned an optical mouse.

So, I just got home with my new logi cordless mx duo..cordless elite kb + mx700 optical w/ recharge base :)
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=486,CONTENTID=6831

And now the question...
I can run the Keyboard on either the standard ps/2 kb jack, or on USB.
My inclination is to just use the KB jack. Is there any good reason I might want to use USB?

edit:
If I use USB, it also eliminates using the ps/2 mouse plug.
So both the mouse and KB would be USB....

Sasq
2nd July 2004, 19:18
My hp at work only accepts usb kb's

No real difference unless you have a few boxes and a kvm switch - though saying bye bye to ps/2 is sorta nice

Wombat
2nd July 2004, 19:21
I use the PS/2 connections. If I didn't, I wouldn't have enough USB ports for other stuff.

Kruzin
2nd July 2004, 19:22
Well, USB ports are not a prob for me. I have 4 ports on my mobo, and only use 1 for the digital camera...

Kruzin
2nd July 2004, 19:25
And another Q....
If I go USB, can I leave my existing KB on the ps/2 port, and have the option of switching KBs?
I know I can do it with the mouse, and plan to. Until my hand gets used to the new mouse, I may want to switch back and forth. It would be nice to do that with the KB as well...

Jammrock
2nd July 2004, 19:25
If you use USB keyboards be careful of your BIOS settings if you use legacy anything. If you're a pure Wink2, WinXP, Win2k3 guy then it's no problem. One of the fun things I did was disable the PS/2 ports to free up some system resources.

Jammrock

Sasq
2nd July 2004, 19:26
only think to note, if you pc goes into standby, and you have unplugged the usb kb. you will need to use the power switch to wake it.

Apart from that, no issues with mine at work i have seen.
(I use a MS$ pro natural MultiMedia wireless KB/mouse at work)

Kruzin
2nd July 2004, 19:26
Only run XP pro...

Helevitia
2nd July 2004, 21:17
I have the same setup for a year now. I notice that I have less problems when using the ps/2 ports.

And the other thing that Wombat already mentioned is that you can possibly run out of USB ports. I have my printer and scanner plugged into the back and I don't have anymore ports back there for USB so that is the main reason I use ps/2.

Dave

Helevitia
2nd July 2004, 21:18
btw, the batteries don't have the memory effect so you can charge it for 15 minutes and it will give you one full day of use. Just do that and charge it overnight after you are done.

Kruzin
3rd July 2004, 08:26
Well, ps/2 it is.
I can't get it to do squat on USB...

Kurt
4th July 2004, 02:53
Originally posted by Jammrock
If you use USB keyboards be careful of your BIOS settings if you use legacy anything. If you're a pure Wink2, WinXP, Win2k3 guy then it's no problem. One of the fun things I did was disable the PS/2 ports to free up some system resources.

Jammrock

The other problem is the sometimes problematic Windows USB support. If it decides to install the wrong driver for the USB KB/mouse, PS2 can save you a lot of time and allow you to reinstall.

Happened to me once while installing some allegedly cr*ppy Trust cordless USB mice (even after I had recommended against doing so...). The driver borked the system and Windows remained so even after I had cleaned up (or so I thought) everything. The thing to know is that it borks the mouse AND KB if they're both PS2 or USB.

So I had to unplug my nice and useless USB KB to put in a PS2 one (the Trust mouse was of course useless) and reinstall the default Microsoft PS2 driver (problems there too as Windows had actually decided some Logitech driver was the default/generic driver, so I had to solve that too).

That's the problem with USB. Were it to be a PS2 KB, it would have continued to work even with the wrong drivers and I wouldn't have lost so much time...

Greebe
4th July 2004, 04:01
Originally posted by Helevitia
btw, the batteries don't have the memory effect so you can charge it for 15 minutes and it will give you one full day of use. Just do that and charge it overnight after you are done.

That was the marketing hype when NiMH batteries came out, and since has been proven otherwise... they do have memory effect.

Kurt
4th July 2004, 08:48
They all have a memory effect. The newer batteries will show it after a longer time.

If I recall correctly, 3M was working on some plastic-hybrid battery that didn't have a memory effect. Don't know what's the state of the project now...

Wombat
4th July 2004, 12:31
Originally posted by Kurt
They all have a memory effect. The newer batteries will show it after a longer time. I thought L-ion was still not supposed to have memory.

Kruzin
4th July 2004, 12:36
How long should I expect a charge to last?
I fully charged it overnight the first night before using it. It's been running for 1 1/2 days now without being set in the recharge base.

Kurt
4th July 2004, 14:47
Originally posted by Wombat
I thought L-ion was still not supposed to have memory.

They do. As I said, they show it after a longer period of time(not because they get it after a longer time, but since it's lesser you notice it after a longer period of time).

Helevitia
4th July 2004, 14:57
Originally posted by Kruzin
How long should I expect a charge to last?
I fully charged it overnight the first night before using it. It's been running for 1 1/2 days now without being set in the recharge base.

up to 10 days.

Helevitia
4th July 2004, 14:59
Originally posted by Kurt
They do. As I said, they show it after a longer period of time(not because they get it after a longer time, but since it's lesser you notice it after a longer period of time).

AFAIK, you get 80-100% charge for several months and then
~%80 for ~4 years(assuming 2-4 hours a day use).

edit: I am referring to li-ion and li-poly batteries.

Greebe
4th July 2004, 16:13
Li Ion or Polymer batteries have a shelf life of a tad more than one year

Greebe
4th July 2004, 16:15
Originally posted by Kurt
They all have a memory effect. The newer batteries will show it after a longer time.

If I recall correctly, 3M was working on some plastic-hybrid battery that didn't have a memory effect. Don't know what's the state of the project now...

Lithium ion/polymer batteries don't have a memory

LiPo's have plastic plates within them

Helevitia
4th July 2004, 16:40
Originally posted by Greebe
Li Ion or Polymer batteries have a shelf life of a tad more than one year

hmm? My mp3 player claims 4+ years of battery life. It has a Li-poly.

Dave

Kurt
5th July 2004, 04:03
Originally posted by Greebe
Lithium ion/polymer batteries don't have a memory

LiPo's have plastic plates within them

Yes, it's the actual wear of the battery. Everyone uses "memory effect" though, even if it's not the proper term.

Ribbit
5th July 2004, 05:22
Li-Ion batteries slowly eat themselves, whether they're used or not, and become useless after about 5 years.

Greebe
5th July 2004, 06:15
In Li I or Polymer it's actually a chemical decomposition... this is completely different than the memory effect where that can be broken and the cell regenerated by doing a full cycle discharge followed up by a full charge and then peaked.

Greebe
5th July 2004, 06:49
Dave there are different considerations to taken into consideration... on your MP3 player it's a very low discharge type device... with a trickle charger... both of these factors add up to why they claim 4 years, but that would be on the extreme outside fringe. Trust me you'll want to replace it before then because of the reduced playing time (capacity).

Temperature also has a extreme effect, cold they are not so bad as NiMH cells but not as good as NiCd. On the flipside heat is the worst condition. Chemical decomposition can result even if the cell is not being used. Once this occurs the cell will bloat (puff up etc) and thermal ruaway will occur. One incident reciently in Cali where a guy brings his R/C stuff to work with him (long drive from home) left the cells resting on the passenger seat. He no longer has that car.

I'm already seeing the Li Ion battery in my cell phone needing replacement and it's not quite 1 year old yet. and have a LiPo replacement picked out (I'll rebuild the single cell pack myself)

I use the latest generation high discharge rate LiPo(lymer) batteries for my R/C planes. All will self discharge little by little over time so I top them off (this is not called peaking tho, completely different) with an AstroFlight Lithium charger (specific for Lithium type batteries only). I keep a log of the recharge capacity which is displayed in mah as is the cell voltage and time to charge... which all should be charged at no more than a 1C rate (1C = 1 x the Charge capacity, ie if the battery is rated for 1000mah then it would be recharged at a 1000mah rate max)

Discharging any lithium battery below 2.70vdc/cell also causes an irreversable chemical decomposition. Most of us don't allow discharges below 3.0vdc. Reason for this is 1. we have a safety margin and 2. typically 95% of it's capacity has already been used. If discharged less can cause them to either rupture or catch fire depending on the circumstances. Also note that Lithium Ion/poly cells should never be stored in a disharged state.