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**mkaresh** · 21 January 2001, 22:53

Figured I'd better make sure all of the options I've listed can even do what is required to make VCDs. Matrox works with MJPEG with the G400 and MPEG2 with the G450. What does this mean when it comes to recording to CD in MPEG1. Just a simple conversion at the end?

OR is nothing in this area "simple?"

Also, does VCD make sense at all? Or should they expect to go back to tape for decent quality (which wouldn't do what they originally wanted but could lead to better footage)?

Seems DVD-R will be the eventual answer, but the blank media right now seem ridiculously expensive.

**Anatoly Neverov** · 22 January 2001, 02:48

If you are going to do ONLY VCD's and/ or DVD's (I mean, to use mpeg1 and mpeg2 formats, and nothing more), I highly recommend you to investigate this tool:

http://www.vitecmm.com/dcm.htm

I recently bought it and don't regret at all. It grabs video with the bitrate up to 15,000 kbit/sec, and the quality of its capture is more than satisfactory.

If you need any details, you may address to me privately, since it is MATROX (not VITEC) forum.

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Anatoly Neverov
Minsk, Belarus

**This_Idiot** · 22 January 2001, 11:45

Just a quick correction - This is NOT a Matrox-only area. The forum "belongs" to www.desktopvideoworld.com . Although DTVW is part of the Matroxusers Resource Centre (MURC), it is open to ALL videoeditors using ANY equipment.

I know it gets tricky when you've found this forum via the MURC forums, not everyone realises that it is just one facet of a large site and source of information (although naturally not as large as I would like it to be <sigh>)

Thanks
Chris,
Webmaster www.desktopvideoworld.com and forum moderator.

**Anatoly Neverov** · 22 January 2001, 11:58

Interesting. And how to encode MURC? I thought it is something like Matrox Users ...?

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Anatoly Neverov
Minsk, Belarus

**mkaresh** · 22 January 2001, 12:29

I looked at that site. Looks like the price is $799. Am I looking at the right thing? At the same time, it's not clear from the minimal amount of info at the Vitec site what I'm getting for that amount of money, which is far more than I'd planned on spending.

For just a bit more, I could get an RT2000. For the same amount I could get a DC500. So I guess I'm missing something here. Do these do a much worse job making VCDs? Can they not output MPEG1 at all, so it's all software?

The DCM seems mostly oriented towards making DVDs. But as long as the media costs about $20 per, that's not happening here.

Also, it states that the discs it makes can be played back ysing VITEC's DVD player software. Does this mean that it can ONLY be played using this software? What's the point of making the discs if other people can't use them? This may be a good product, but the info on their site could be clearer and more comprehensive.

So what am I not getting here?

Thanks for the tip. Could still be the way to go, I just need more info.

Michael

**Anatoly Neverov** · 22 January 2001, 13:08

I bought it from their Canadian&US distributors for $US499.99 this (2001) year. Here they are:

http://www.bernclare.com/dcm.htm.

You may make with this hardware standard VCD 2.0 and standard DVD'c. To make VCD 2.0 you need a simple CD Writer, to make DVD's you need DVD burner. Here you may find what is the difference between them, and a lot of related information:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/
http://www.vcdhelp.com/

Besides, this device allows to capture in non-standard mpeg1 and mpeg2 formats with constant and variable bitrate up to 15,000 kbps.

You will almost not be able to edit captured material. You'll can only cut the grabbed file in pieces, and move/ delete them in timeline. And - you can correct brightness/ contrast/ hue/ saturation on the fly, during capture. If you want to make any serious edition, you should capture your video with any capture card in *.avi format, and add the needed effects: transitions, frame-in-frame, titles, and so on. And after you may encode your *.avi to *.mpeg with any software encoder like TMPEGEnc.

If I need such edition, I capture my video or with Marvel g400 in analog, or with PYRO in DV format, make the film with various effects, and record the film or back to the camera (DV), or to VCR (analog). After that I grab this film with DCM. Otherwise it takes a lot of time to encode the film with the software encoder (usually, 5-7 minutes of video take about 60 minutes of software compression).

I also like to make VCD's from my videos. I have many films with old rock groups. I captured a concert of Pink Floyd. It length is 113 minutes. It took me 2.6 hours to capture the whole film and to make 2 CD's with it. 113 minutes for capture, and 30-40 minutes for recording onto the CD's. Please look the screenshots from that film here if you want: http://195.95.123.224/video/pfloyd.htm . I captured it in standard mpeg1 format and made standard VCD 2.0. The quality can be much much better if I capture in mpeg2 format.

In other words, if you are going to make VCD's and DVD's - that is right what you need.

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Anatoly Neverov
Minsk, Belarus

**mkaresh** · 22 January 2001, 13:22

This is really helpful information.

So, the main advantage of the DCM is that it allows for faster conversion into MPEG 1 and 2? The new G450 will convert to MPEG2 automatically. I'm not sure what this means for quality and other considerations vs. the G400's MJPEG. Similarly, the Dazzle DVC USB captures MPEG1 and costs $110 if you do it right. I think the Dazzle DVC II captures in MPEGII, for about $230.

So I'm still not sure what the $499 here gets me. Higher quality hardware conversions? Is the software an excellent package? What does it do, since it doesn't allow much editting?

It seems I have a lot of questions. Now I wonder if it will be harder to edit with the new G450 than the G400, because of the MPEG2 captures. Or is only MPEG1 hard to edit?

Finally, how much does quality suffer if you first go through the G400 and edit, then output again. Most accounts say the capture quality of the G400 is mediocre.

What the Terapin my parents originally considered does is goes straight to CD from your VCR or camcorder (analog only). Quality seems to be typical MPEG1, with artifacts, etc. Price is about $580 shipped from best source.

Thanks,

Michael

**Anatoly Neverov** · 22 January 2001, 14:01

> So, the main advantage of the DCM is that it allows for faster conversion into MPEG 1 and 2?

It is not conversion. It is capture. You plug your video device - camera or VCR - to this card and capture directly in mpeg1 or mpeg2 format with the bitrate up to 15,000 kbps onto the HDD of your computer.

> The new G450 will convert to MPEG2 automatically. I'm not sure what this means for quality
> and other considerations vs. the G400's MJPEG.

It means that those mpegs will be more difficult to edit than mjpegs of Marvel g400.

> Similarly, the Dazzle DVC USB captures MPEG1 and costs $110 if you do it right. I
> think the Dazzle DVC II captures in MPEGII, for about $230.

Read any forum or usenet group devoted to mpeg format. All the mankind from Northern to Southern pole weeps by bloody tears because of Dazzle's bugs. How do you think, why their devices are so cheap? And why Vitec didn't lower their prices after the appearance of Dazzles?

> So I'm still not sure what the $499 here gets me. Higher quality hardware conversions?

Yes. Not conversion, but capture.

> Is the software an excellent package? What does it do, since it doesn't allow much editting?

The software supplied with the card is weak. Just a shame. I can't say anything about DVD creator (any tool for creation of DVD's) - I just don't use it. From usenet I knew that it's OK. But I didn't even try it. I just don't need it at all, I don't make DVD's. Still. Video Clip MPEG-2 SE cuts the files with muxer rate mistake, which can be fixed by freeware MPEG-Corrector. I cut/ split/ merge pieces of files with freeware TMPEGEnc. Same TMPEGEnc makes *.mpg files MUCH better than MPEG Maker 2 (software mpeg encoder), bundled with the card. But I found the card's capture quality much better than I expected. I don't regret about this purchase at all. I wouldn't regret if even it was twice worse than it is. All the software problems are resolved by freeware TMPEGEnc. I grab the film, and split it with TMPEGEng.

> It seems I have a lot of questions. Now I wonder if it will be harder to edit with the new G450
> than the G400, because of the MPEG2 captures. Or is only MPEG1 hard to edit?

I just don't know. Never have edited neither mpeg1 nor mpeg2. Because in any case it is worse than to edit *.avi's.

> Finally, how much does quality suffer if you first go through the G400 and edit, then output
> again.

Slightly worse if I work in analog. But I economize days!!! And still the quality remains more than satisfactory. Watching the clip on TV (not computer!) screen you won't see any difference at all. Of course, if you are not the owner of Dazzle or any other similar device.

> Most accounts say the capture quality of the G400 is mediocre.

They are just bursting with envy to the happiness of g400's owners. Don't listen to them.

> What the Terapin my parents originally considered does is goes straight to CD from your VCR or
> camcorder (analog only). Quality seems to be typical MPEG1, with artifacts, etc. Price is about
> $580 shipped from best source.

I know that. I don't think that Terrapin is better than DCM. Mpeg1 is mpeg1. It never was considered as anything super pooper. It is just a good (not the best) quality, compability with many OS, and unpretentiousness to resources. Right what I need. I need my work to be read by ANY computer. Mpeg1 format gives me that possibility.

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Anatoly Neverov
Minsk, Belarus

**mkaresh** · 22 January 2001, 14:33

This information is very helpful once again.

What I'm hearing is that you use the DCM to perform MPEG1 captures just prior to burning them onto a CD-R. Since the price is nearly the same as the Terapin, it sounds like the Terapin might be a good idea even if they do buy a new PC for editting. And it would be much easier and a little quicker (burns as captures I think).

The main lesson I'm learning here is it helps to have hardware to capture MPEG1, and that none of the common capture cards (G400, AIW, DC500, RT2000, etc.) perform this task. What they offer is conversion software, which takes a long, long time. Such that you really need one capture device for editting and a second (Dazzle, DCM, Terapin, etc.) for MPEG. Correct on all counts?

Thanks again,

Michael

**Anatoly Neverov** · 22 January 2001, 15:43

> What I'm hearing is that you use the DCM to perform MPEG1 captures just prior to burning them
> onto a CD-R.

Right.

> Since the price is nearly the same as the Terapin, it sounds like the Terapin might be a good
> idea even if they do buy a new PC for editting. And it would be much easier and a little quicker
> (burns as captures I think).

I don't know how Terrapin handles DVD's. Maybe any time I'll buy DVD burner, and with DCM I won't have any problems. I am not sure that Terapin will be OK. Besides, several times I have read in various sources that Terrapin's mpeg's quality is worse than the one of DCM. And never read the opposite opinion. And, finally, Terrapin is more expensive. Thus, choosing DCM I spend less of money, I know for sure that I will be able to make good normal DVD's, and I get the quality at least not worse (maybe better) than the one offered by Terrapin's device. Why to choose Terrapin, tell me please?

> The main lesson I'm learning here is it helps to have hardware to capture MPEG1, and that none
> of the common capture cards (G400, AIW, DC500, RT2000, etc.) perform this task. What they offer
> is conversion software, which takes a long, long time. Such that you really need one capture
> device for editting and a second (Dazzle, DCM, Terapin, etc.) for MPEG. Correct on all counts?

It is not my crying need. I often make commercial advertising films for various businesses. Usually they order just VHS tape cassette. But more and more often they order VCD's. I make them standard VCD 2.0 discs since they are read by practically any computer. If the film is 5-10 minutes of length - no problem. I can do it with MPEGEnc from *.avi. But several times I made 45-75 minutes of length films. 45 minutes of video it is almost 9 hours of conversion, and 75 minutes it is at least 12-13 hours! With DCM it is exactly 45 and 75 minutes. Compare: 75 minutes and 13 hours. I had a choice: not to spend $500.00 and waste 13 hours of my life, or to spend those $500.00 and economize this time. I have chosen the first option. BTW, the *.mpg file from TMPEGEnc is of better quality than from DCM. But, as I told you, DCM's quality is good. I'd say that TMPEGEng gives perfect quality, DCM gives good quality. If TMPEGEng is 100%, DCM is 75-85%.

Here opens one more interesting opportunity: I've got this board the 12th of January. Several days ago I published an ad in one local newspaper: "I'll put your videos from tape cassettes onto CD's". That advert was published yesterday. I've got today 5 phone calls from various investigators. I asked $15.00 for one CD. All the callers promised to call me back recently. Virtually it means: 1.5 hours of work - $15.00. 500 hours of such a work, and that DCM will be paid for.

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Anatoly Neverov
Minsk, Belarus

**mkaresh** · 22 January 2001, 23:02

I checked out that site you mentioned. They've raised the price to $550.

At any rate, the more I look at this stuff the more I think it's just too complicated for my parents. Too many incompatibilities, need to run freeware to compensate for bugs, etc. That and this whole area seems to be developing rapidly. So if they do anything, it probably will be just to get the Terapin because it's fast and easy.

Maybe in a year or two get a new computer for editting. I suspect the software and hardware will be much further along by then.

Thanks very much for all your help.

**Anatoly Neverov** · 23 January 2001, 09:56

I do agree with you that that for elderly people Terrapin would be probably better. That device should be simple as a rake. Whereas DCM has many tunings to tune and cords to plug. My computer now is similar to any octopus because of about of a dozen of hoses-connectors protruded from its all possible holes.

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Anatoly Neverov
Minsk, Belarus

**Anatoly Neverov** · 24 January 2001, 12:39

I found a thread about Terrapin here:

http://www.cdrom-guide.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/002434.html

Check this forum thoroughly, I've met a lot of interesting info there. Many garbage, but sometimes you may find there a real pearl.

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Anatoly Neverov
Minsk, Belarus

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System and video capture recommendations for VCD

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