stacking video in MSP 7 Q?

[JonH]

I made a video to use as an intro for a DVD. I put four clips on the timeline in MSP 7. I dropped their speed and added vignettes, and then used motion paths to put each clip in one of four quadrants. The resulting mpeg video is of poorer quality than when they are not stacked like this. Am I missing something?
Thanks.
Jon

[smitty]

Hi Jon what format were the clips? mpeg would recompress and look much worse.Did you use a border?Did the poor look show only on computer or also on NTSC monitor?
smitty

[Brian Ellis]

This kind of operation should be done with AVIs, preferably lossless or nearly so. When you have got them right, only then encode to DVD-compliant MPEG-2.

[JonH]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm using AVI files captured from a digital video camera. I encoded to DVD compliant MPEG2, but that isn't the problem. It looks like any AVI clip I shrink to a small size with a moving path in MSP7 loses quality before encoding. It's not terrible, but I would think it would maintain it's high quality. Should I be deinterlacing or applying a filter (auto level?) or anything? Is this something unique to MSP?
THanks.
Jon

[smitty]

I don't know if you are monitoring on NTSC but if you don't it will initially look of poor quality on the computer monitor , because your final media is to be NTSC you shouldn't deinterlace
What I do is load dv files into a project with format set to dv avi
do the effects, using moving path set position and size try to keep them a multiple of 8 then preview out to ntsc thru the dv cam
It has no problems at this point unless you use titles that have very small size or borders. When done create NTSC DVD compliant mpg2 file.
smitty

[JonH]

Thanks, Smitty. My project is set up with DV AVI format, field order A, NTSC drop frame, DV encoder type 1. I just tried this again. I have an action clip which is very clear at full size. I copied it and pasted it next to the original and used a moving path on it. I selected "keep aspect ratio" and then reduced its size in half (360 X 240). This change is a multiple of 8.
On playback, the smaller-sized clip looks fine in the preview window when played from within the moving path settings window. But when played back on the timeline at the same size, it loses quality. Looks like noise around edges. And, this noise continues in a DVD compliant MPEG2 file (which I had done earlier).
So, my issue is not stacking clips, as I originally thought, but just quality loss when shrinking a clip using a moving path.
Jon

[JonH]

I took the same clip mentioned above and imported into After Effects. I reduced it by 50% and it played fine in AE. I exported it in reduced size and then put it on the timeline in MSP7. It still lost the quality that it appeared to have in AE. I'm thinking there is something not right in MSP7. Of course, I don't know much.
Jon

[smitty]

Hi Jon I'm learning new things everyday and your observation has me intrigued. I do a lot of stacking and moving path stuff so I would like to be sure I'm not missing something when I do this.
In what way is the quality reduced? resolution, contrast change, grain , edge artifacts??
thanks
smitty

[JonH]

Hi Smitty,
There are edge artifacts at contrast points even when there is little movement. The last clip I looked at is from a baseball game. A guy is rounding third and trots to home plate. The contrast between the grass and dirt has artifacts. People's shoes have artifacts. Dark and light areas in the dirt have artifacts. I guess it is the contrast that is the main problem, which lowers the overall resolution.
The reduced size file I made in After Effects also plays poorly in Windows media player, so I don't think it is an MSP issue.
Jon

[smitty]

Thanks Jon
I'll do some tests and get back to you.
smitty

[JonH]

Smitty,
I didn't have After Effects on the high quality setting the first time I did it. Now, after reducing the clip by 50% in After Effects and placing it on the MSP timeline, it plays fine. It also plays fine in Windows Media Player. It's the moving path in MSP that creates the problem. At least I have a work-around for now.
Jon

[smitty]

Good eye Jon!
I had not noticed this.Exactly as you said in high contrast areas there is a slight edge artifacting after applying a moving path (either reducing or increasing size).
I captured some stills during testing and they support this.
I did apply an average filter set at about 3 or 4 and this seems to improve the artifacts so as not to be visible. When increasing size this softens the image but when reducing it isn't noticable.
At first I thought when reducing , fewer pixels would have to represent the same image so it would make sense , however when increasing the size there would be MORE and should show no artifacts.So that would lead you to believe that the moving path uses some sort of algorithm to do it's thing and the algorithm isn't dead on.
I'm happy you mentioned this.I will now apply the average filter to future productions of this nature.
Thanks
smitty

[JonH]

Smitty,
Thanks for the advice on the average filter. I am unfamiliar with it (I'm a novice). Will give it a try.
Jon