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LvR
2nd March 2004, 19:43
Just when you thought the taxman cannot get his grubby little paws on your money if you spend it in cash - BOOM! (http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904rfidtagsexplode.html)

KvHagedorn
2nd March 2004, 19:46
Well, now that we know where it is, out comes the hole punch. :)

Jammrock
2nd March 2004, 19:51
ssshhhh ... if you talk too loud they may come after you.

KvHagedorn
2nd March 2004, 19:58
I wonder if those bills were immersed in water if they would not burn like that when you microwave them.

Sasq
2nd March 2004, 19:59
erm guys, i want you to take one of those nice easily counterfitable american bills out of your wallet. have a close look at both sides.

You see that serial number?

Thank you, call again.

KvHagedorn
2nd March 2004, 20:08
Well, the serial number alone will not alert the orbiting death ray to one's whereabouts. Everyone knows big corporations like Wal-Mart and Disney have purchased their very own Senators for the priviledge of being able to use the death ray satellite.

Tjalfe
2nd March 2004, 20:17
uhm.. you seriously don't belive that shit do you?

KvHagedorn
2nd March 2004, 20:21
Yeah? Just let your little girl try and copy her friend's Little Mermaid tape and see what happens! :o ;)

Jon P. Inghram
2nd March 2004, 21:02
Originally posted by tjalfe
uhm.. you seriously don't belive that shit do you?

Clearly you didn't see the rest of that website. I fear for the world if there are people like you who don't want to accept the truth and see how we're being oppressed. :(


Oh, and we sent the rovers to Mars for the specific reason to find alien life and artifacts and pretend they're not really there, just to get the people who really know what's happening annoyed, or something like that.

;)

schmosef
2nd March 2004, 21:26
I don't see how you could carry $1,000 in mainly 20 dollar bill denominations in one wallet. The story said that the lion's share of the bills were 20s. So lets be really conservative and say that 10 bills were 20s and the rest were 100s. That's 18 bills. My wallet wouldn't fit nearly that many. Even 10 $100 bills would be a tight fit. Granted US and Canadian currency isn't the same. But $1000, mainly in $20 bills? I don't buy it. And when I carry around that much money, I'm usually not going to visit the local truck stop.

KvHagedorn
2nd March 2004, 21:36
I was thinking it looked like someone shot a stack of 20s with a laser.. I checked it out of curiosity, and there seems to be nothing amiss where the right eye is.

KRSESQ
2nd March 2004, 21:40
50 twenty dollar bills would fit nicely into one of those humungous wallets that truckers keep chained to their belt.

Kevin

Technoid
2nd March 2004, 22:07
The Words that comes to my mind is "Paranoid delusions" :devious:

Jon P. Inghram
2nd March 2004, 22:14
Originally posted by Technoid
The Words that comes to my mind is "Paranoid delusions" :devious:

Is it they who are paranoid, or could it possibly be you who are naive? Think about it...

;)

LvR
2nd March 2004, 22:37
Originally posted by schmosef
I don't see how you could carry $1,000 in mainly 20 dollar bill denominations in one wallet. The story said that the lion's share of the bills were 20s. So lets be really conservative and say that 10 bills were 20s and the rest were 100s. That's 18 bills. My wallet wouldn't fit nearly that many. Even 10 $100 bills would be a tight fit. Granted US and Canadian currency isn't the same. But $1000, mainly in $20 bills? I don't buy it. And when I carry around that much money, I'm usually not going to visit the local truck stop. Read again.................
So we chose to 'microwave' our cashNote the word OUR - Not the single guy's cash in his wallet, but what both had once they got home...........

schmosef
2nd March 2004, 23:10
Originally posted by LvR
Note the word OUR - Not the single guy's cash in his wallet, but what both had once they got home...........

:confused:

What does that have to do with the amount of bills in his back pocket?

The article states: "Dave had over $1000 dollars in his back pocket (in his wallet). New twenties were the lion share of the bills in his wallet."

All I'm saying is that it would be an uncomfortable amount of bills to be walking around with in my back pocket. To me, the situation sounds contrived.

TransformX
2nd March 2004, 23:13
Israeli money has a little piece of a wire like tin foil going around the middle from top to bottom. AFAIK there's some metal in the USD ink so if you pack enough bills together strange stuff might happen.

Helevitia
2nd March 2004, 23:13
somebody go stick a 20 in the microwave and nuke it. Tell us if it explodes ;)

schmosef
2nd March 2004, 23:14
This reminds me of something I saw on tv once, maybe it was the x-files. A guy pulled a wire out of a new 20 and said something about how the wire was detected at airports so the government could track how much money was leaving the country.

Anybody remember this?

TransformX
2nd March 2004, 23:19
Israeli money has that wire + other tricks for years as a mean to avoid counterfeit money.
Never heard about anything electronicly 'detecting' it.

schmosef
2nd March 2004, 23:23
It was fiction. On a show like the x-files. It wasn't presented as actual fact.

Just wondering if anybody remembers the show.

Jon P. Inghram
3rd March 2004, 01:51
It was the hacker geeks on the X-Files, the ones who were in their own short lived show "The Lone Gunmen."

az
3rd March 2004, 02:32
In the GDR, some money was being radiated so as to be able to track it on the border.

AZ

GT98
3rd March 2004, 05:26
Well I think that its just about impossible to fit an RDIF tag onto a bill like that....also why do it since the avg life of a $20 is about a year or so and the cost of adding it wouldn't make it worth it. I'm willing to bet 20 bucks that the reason the money burnt up like that is due to the metal strip in it thats been there for years and having certain metal objects in a microwave is asking for trouble.

When I get a new $20 I'll recreate the experment to see if I can get it to burn a hole in it

High_Jumbllama
4th March 2004, 07:18
Like said above the ink has magnetic properties. The sensor mechanisms used are magnetic as well and do not have any kind of RF technology. The sensors triggered an alarm due to the concentration of new bills. There is no reason to think of this having anything to do with any kind of tracking tags.

Helevitia
4th March 2004, 09:58
saw this on HOCP this morning :)

Exploding Money = Fake:
[H]ard reader, Denny Church, pointed out this story yesterday about $20 bills blowing up in the microwave because of an alleged RFID tag in the bill. Well, Denny thought it sounded a little suspicious, so he tried it out himself…here’s what happened:


I tried this out this morning with a new $20.00 Series 2004 #EB121XXXXXX and it did not happen. I tried in the following times in the microwave: 30 Seconds, 60 Seconds, 5 Minutes. The only thing that happened is that the bill became more defined.

Fluff
4th March 2004, 11:15
It will all get too much when favours are RFID tagged :)

Tjalfe
4th March 2004, 11:21
The read range of RFID tags is tiny. Centimeters at best with the small tags. What are all these people worried about?
the tags that promise huge (10meter and thereabouts ) range, are Active tags with batteries in them. Try stuffing a battery in a $20 bill and see just how plausable that is.
With 5*5cm antennas hooked up to a passive RFID tag, a read range can hit maybe half a meter with a strong enough field reading them. And that only if the tag is in optimum position.

Greebe
5th March 2004, 08:22
Once you guys get a bit more knowledge under your belts about how this technology can be applied I think you all would be suprised.

Most of your comments are rather amusing :D ;)

Gurm
5th March 2004, 09:17
Wow. You know, I've been really nice lately, but between your smarmy "I hope Infinium DOES sue HardOCP" posts, and this garbage...

Get a clue. Not everyone is out to get you. There are no RFID tags in money. I went, encouraged, by the HardOCP article, and nuked a new $20.

Guess what? No explosion.

Oh well. So much for your retarded conspiracy theories.

- Gurm

Greebe
5th March 2004, 10:22
No you've not been nice lately, you've only been temporarily humbled.

Have a bad day at work Jason?

If you only knew the slightest about what I am refering to (like antenna needs to be 25cm² to work) you're sadly mistaken. Did I say it was rfid? Nope, but go ahead and jump off the deep end, it's what you're best at. :rolleyes:

Gurm
5th March 2004, 11:00
Ok lemme recap:

Us: That won't work, the antenna has to be much bigger.

Greebe: You have no idea what you're talking about.

Gurm: Yes we do, hush.

Greebe: No. The antenna has to be bigger. You're a moron.

Who sounds stupid?

Oh yes, that's right - you!

Now be quiet. You can no longer call in favors and have my posts erased, or had you forgotten?

- Gurm

Greebe
5th March 2004, 12:31
Originally posted by Gurm
Ok lemme recap:

Us: That won't work, the antenna has to be much bigger.

Greebe: You have no idea what you're talking about.

Gurm: Yes we do, hush.

Greebe: No. The antenna has to be bigger. You're a moron.

Who sounds stupid?

Oh yes, that's right - you!

Now be quiet. You can no longer call in favors and have my posts erased, or had you forgotten?

- Gurm

No 5cmx5cm=25²cm... ie what tjalfe said...

Stop thinking antenna's and think frequency. Higher the freq. shorter wavelength ie antenna is needed... jump into the microwave range and it's all the same.

What an additude... tsk tsk

Dredging up the past are we... Boy do you have it bad... and incorrect. I don't pull favors, only what is agreed with is delt in an appropriate manner or don't YOU know the difference? (more baseless flames... how sad)

Jon P. Inghram
5th March 2004, 14:09
Originally posted by Greebe
Once you guys get a bit more knowledge under your belts about how this technology can be applied I think you all would be suprised.

Most of your comments are rather amusing :D ;)

Perhaps you should work on your delivery, you come off sounding like you're saying "You're all wrong, I know the truth but I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU, HAHAHAHA!"

Greebe
5th March 2004, 14:49
All in how it's interperated Jon. :)

I've had several members (friends) jump my case privately over how I've stated things before... then they come to find out why I do and understand.

Sometimes not, but mostly they do.

Just because I don't spell it all out in the simplist form doesn't mean I'm only trying to come off as a smart arse 24/7 (unlike some people).

Sometimes I do only to provoke others to ask additional Q's and to think about what they're saying.

If Jason wanted advise I'd give to the best of my abilities... he seems to think I hate him, I don't. After having a run in with Buddman (and the subsequent barrage of spam emails he signed me up for) He asked some Q's of all and I answered them for him without ill repute. He even thanked me and that wasn't neccessary (but nice :)

There are certain people do recieve my special treatment... and there is always good reason behind it.

Sooooooooooo...

If ya have a Q just ask.. I can be reached many different ways. (PMing, email, etc. etc. :)

Tjalfe
5th March 2004, 15:17
then I ask, what is the read range of a tag small enough to be in a $20 bill?...
I only ever worked with 125KHz and 13.56MHz systems( and that was 2 years aog), and the read range was miniscule. I have seen some companies advertize huge range on a passive tag, but I do believe it is a highly directional antenna and much higher wattage that is allowed here in North america :)

So what are your experience with RFID?

Greebe
5th March 2004, 15:22
My experience... just about everything that has electrons running through it. Both on the commercial/industrial and the military/goverment side of things.

Tjalfe
5th March 2004, 15:35
Originally posted by Greebe
My experience... just about everything that has electrons running through it. Both on the commercial/industrial and the military/goverment side of things.

I did not question your overall experience, which I can tell is way beyond mine, but what info do you have about RFID?..
My experience is based on working with it 2 years ago, so I figure you may have something new to add to it since.
Is there a wonder tag out there which somehow can be read at a decent range and be small enough to be in a $20 bill? .. I have not yet run into such a beast, but it would have to be in the 2.45GHz or 5.8GHz range to have an antenna small enough. ( these standards were not around when I was working with them)

http://www.rfid-handbook.de/rfid/standardization.html

Greebe
5th March 2004, 15:41
opened a can of worms here... how should I say... uhmmm...can't. Lets just say @~15gHz interesting things are possible ;)

az
5th March 2004, 15:42
I seem to recall (though I of course have no real knowledge) reading that there are passive RFID tags with half a meter read range that can be hidden in clothes labels.

AZ

Tjalfe
5th March 2004, 15:42
@ 15GHz you are working with black magic :D

Greebe
5th March 2004, 16:15
lol

Wulfman
5th March 2004, 16:18
Originally posted by az
I seem to recall (though I of course have no real knowledge) reading that there are passive RFID tags with half a meter read range that can be hidden in clothes labels.

yup, iirc benetton started using them. the EZB might have plans to include RFIDs into €-notes, these consideration were confirmed by a spokesperson at some point last year. I only found a reference to an EE times article, which seems to be gone.

mfg
wulfman

Jon P. Inghram
5th March 2004, 16:30
http://pffc-online.com/ar/paper_rfid_conductive_inks/

http://www.plasticlogic.com/

http://www.ti.com/tiris/default.htm?DCMP=TIHomeTracking&HQS=Other+OT+home_tirfid

Tjalfe
5th March 2004, 18:29
How come nobody paid attention to the followup.. they are NOT putting RFID tags in their clothing.
Also if they ever are put into clothing, what is keeping people from cutting it off if they are so concerned about privacy

http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/OEG20030405S0001

"The Italian company Benetton said in a release that it "is currently analyzing RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) technology to evaluate its technical characteristics and ... no feasibility studies have yet been undertaken with a view to the possible industrial introduction of this technology."

Gurm
6th March 2004, 13:55
*shrug*

You can keep revising history all you like. Everyone knows what happened, even if you're too schizophrenic to acknowledge it.

- Gurm

Marshmallowman
7th March 2004, 23:23
I am really not up to date on passive tags, but years ago I was working with some dudes working on passive tags for tracking air luggage etc.

They used your usual large frame detector/scanner and the tags themselves were quite small , as everybody pointed out most of it is antennna.

I really think having notes tagged is actually possible, whether it is worth it or they actual do it is no "biggy" for me.

I think a tag that just had denomination info would be excellent stuff for money counting/verfication. And if they did serial #'s it certainly help in tracking down the big dodgy money launderers. But as every one has seen, a bit foil will block it anyway. (you could buy a tin foil wallet to go with your tin foil hat:p)

But microwaveing your money is just paranoid/delusional.

PS I would think all the best and latest passive tagging will be well and truly trade secrets. you are not going to find any defintive answers on just what is currently possible. Airline tagging is probably the biggy in this area for security reasons.