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  • great, I'm hyped...

    just found the rumours about the D70 on dpreview.com (6mpx, 1/500 flash sync, 3 fps/20 frames buffer, ...), browsed their forum and now the site is down. yeah.

    if the camera delivers what the specs are promising, I'll finally go digital this spring.

    [edit] http://www.bythom.com/D70.htm
    the site is old, but the info was updated.

    mfg
    wulfman
    "Perhaps they communicate by changing colour? Like those sea creatures .."
    "Lobsters?"
    "Really? I didn't know they did that."
    "Oh yes, red means help!"

  • #2
    There was a thread of someone who claimed to have held a D70, but the thread could have been fake: he registered just prior to that, and didn't know any of the things a photographer would look at and which are immediatly visible (spotmetering available? focuszones ?)

    1/500 flash speeds would be *very* fast... (D100= 1/180, and it it faster than the similarly priced competition). Of course, if the D70 would support i-TTL (and this is very likely: Nikons new flash protocol)); in it there is a workaround (focal plane sync-flash): the flash fires prior to the shutter opening, and keeps lit until the shutter closes. This gives the impression of faster flash syncs...
    (if you want more info, check the manual for the SB800 speedlight on the Nikon site)

    Overally, it still is unclear if the D70 is a replacement for the D100 (and would have beter specs), of if it is lower ranged (Canon 300D-competitor). Esp. in the latter case, 20 frames buffer (I'm assuming you mean RAW) is a lot.


    Jörg
    pixar
    Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

    Comment


    • #3
      I know, esp. for the claimed pric (which is somehow official, was mentioned in nikons press release some months ago).

      a 1000$ price tag (without lens) would be slightly above D300/rebel...

      mfg
      wulfman
      Last edited by Wulfman; 22 January 2004, 03:10.
      "Perhaps they communicate by changing colour? Like those sea creatures .."
      "Lobsters?"
      "Really? I didn't know they did that."
      "Oh yes, red means help!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, on Thom's website, he has predictions for 2004. And he thinks the D100 will still be in the Nikon range (perhaps a slightly updated version, e.g. with i-TTL).

        The problem is what Canon has had: they had the 10D (which is comparable to the Nikon D100), so when the released an entry model (300D), they had to make sure it wouldn't compete with the 10D (there isn't that much price difference, $500 or so). They did this by artificially crippling some functions (linking exposure modes with focusmodes). Now, Nikon has the same problem...
        Don't forget that those are official prices, street price will be lower (the announced price of the 300D was also higher than what it is in reality).

        There is talk of a D200, but these are wild rumours. Also, it is obvious that Nikon is adopting a different strategy than Canon: Canon is releasing new models every couple of months, Nikon is not. But when you think about it : was there that much difference between the D30, D60 and 10D in the Canon range ? Not really, and they all are comparable to the D100 (better in some aspects, worse in other). I personally think it has to do with the fact that Canon is influenced by their IT-departement (where fast releases are normal), whereas Nikon is still doing it like they did before.
        And I feel it makes sense: there haven't been much technological advancements that would get people that have a DSLR to buy the new model (would you have upgraded from e.g. a D60 to a 10D) ? So why invest in a new model ? Better invest in further research untill it can provide a new model with more innovations...

        Jörg
        pixar
        Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

        Comment


        • #5
          ... and some hours later the quite extensive rumours were removed from the linked site.

          lincolns birthday is on 12. february? well, some weeks more...

          mfg
          wulfman
          "Perhaps they communicate by changing colour? Like those sea creatures .."
          "Lobsters?"
          "Really? I didn't know they did that."
          "Oh yes, red means help!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Yep, it is generally accepted that Nikon will launch the D70 at PMA. Some rumours on a D2x (perhaps an annoucement), and perhaps a new speedlight (currently they only have 1 i-TTL speedlight: the SB800).

            Also, a lot of manufacturers still seem to be struggling with supplies: I have heard there are 7000 Canon 300D in back-order for Belgium; and the waiting list for a Nikon SB800 is 3 weeks to 3 months (two weeks and counting for me )...


            Jörg
            pixar
            Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

            Comment


            • #7
              Just found some specs on the D70, but some things don't add up:

              1. "30 second to 1/8000 shutter, combined electronic/mechanical, so flash sync is 1/500" : flash sync 1/500 is not a consequence of 1/8000 shutter, nor of the electronic/mechanical shutter (they way it is formulated gives that impression; I don't think official Nikon brochures will make such mistakes)

              2. "1005-pixel Color CCD Matrix meter": This is the one used in the F5 If this is true, than its exposure will be spot on (I have worked with an F5; you cannot get a wrong exposure with that camera).
              edit: I don't see where they could put it in such a small camera...


              Jörg
              Last edited by VJ; 23 January 2004, 02:12.
              pixar
              Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by VJ
                Just found some specs on the D70, but some things don't add up:

                1. "30 second to 1/8000 shutter, combined electronic/mechanical, so flash sync is 1/500" : flash sync 1/500 is not a consequence of 1/8000 shutter, nor of the electronic/mechanical shutter (they way it is formulated gives that impression; I don't think official Nikon brochures will make such mistakes)

                2. "1005-pixel Color CCD Matrix meter": This is the one used in the F5 If this is true, than its exposure will be spot on (I have worked with an F5; you cannot get a wrong exposure with that camera).
                edit: I don't see where they could put it in such a small camera...


                Jörg
                They can use the mechanical shutter for speeds slower than some threshold (like 1/180), and use electronic capture control for higher speeds.

                There is a mode in the D1X (I think) that extends the sync speed to 1/300 with their SB-28D, using this technique.

                - Steve

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by spadnos
                  They can use the mechanical shutter for speeds slower than some threshold (like 1/180), and use electronic capture control for higher speeds.

                  There is a mode in the D1X (I think) that extends the sync speed to 1/300 with their SB-28D, using this technique.
                  The D1h also uses this technique: higher shutterspeeds (IIRC shorter than 1/1000) are done with the electronical shutter, slower with the mechanical.

                  My initial comment was intended as : if the max shutter is 1/8000, how can you tell what the max flash sync speed is (and why do you call it a 'consequence'). I'm not totally clear on this topic, but I have read that the max possible flash sync can indeed be calculated from the max shutter speed. (which I didn't know )

                  Jörg
                  pixar
                  Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by VJ
                    The D1h also uses this technique: higher shutterspeeds (IIRC shorter than 1/1000) are done with the electronical shutter, slower with the mechanical.

                    My initial comment was intended as : if the max shutter is 1/8000, how can you tell what the max flash sync speed is (and why do you call it a 'consequence'). I'm not totally clear on this topic, but I have read that the max possible flash sync can indeed be calculated from the max shutter speed. (which I didn't know )

                    Jörg
                    You're right - you can't tell. Whatever you read was wrong. The max flash sync is dependent on the curtain travel time, and max shutter speed. With infinite speed shutter curtains (like electronic shutter control on an image sensor), the max flash sync is the same as max shutter speed - until you get to exposures that are shorter than the flash duration. For a normal camera, they're different.

                    Feel free to stop reading here, unless you want a technically accurate (though long-winded) description of what happens when you press the button on your camera.

                    A little background about me, and how I came to know this stuff (ie, why you should listen to me ): I co-founded the company LPA Design. We made radios for photographic use - the FlashWizard and PocketWizard. We also did a product known in the trade as an Equalizer - a system that synchronizes multiple cameras to a single flash (they're the black boxes plastered all over the backboard at most NBA games). We then made a 360-camera system called "The Big Freeze" to do timeslice effects for the motion picture industry (like the Bullet Time effect in The Matrix, only before The Matrix). You have to deal with a lot of issues to get this to work, including varying shutter lag, the shutter type (leaf or focal plane), and shutter travel time.

                    On the (sad, un-pretty) graph, the horzontal axis is time, and the vertical is essentially the film plane. Any space between the green and red lines represents exposure on that part of the sensor/film (top of graph = top of photo...)

                    So, the sequence of events when you press the button on a camera goes something like this:
                    Shutter Lag: The camera is doing its focusing, metering, white balance / whatever else here - this time delay varies from camera to camera, and from shot to shot on the same camera.

                    Front Curtain is released: The curtain travel time is pretty consistent, even on mediocre cameras - usually within 0.1 ms or so.

                    Front Curtain Travel time: Part of the film or sensor are getting exposed. This is a bad time to have light levels change (like a flash going off), because you'll get different exposure on different parts of the image - called shutter drag.

                    Full Open Time: This is when the entire image plane is being exposed simultaneously - an excellent time for a flash to go off .

                    Rear curtain travel: Self explanatory. Of note is that the front and rear curtains are released at a precise interval - the exposure time. This means that each portion of the image is exposed for the same amount of time (a horizontal line going through the graph, exposure between the green and red lines), just not quite at the same time.

                    At the faster shutter speeds, there is no time during the exposure that the entire sensor is being exposed (a vertical line through the graph), so you can't use flash unless the flash duration is long enough, and the curtain travel time is short enough, that the flash is "on" for the entire duration of the shot.
                    Basically, you either need to completely encompass the flash during the full open time, or you need consistent illumination from the start of the front curtain travel until the end of rear cutrain travel to avoid shutter drag.

                    Hopefully, you're totally clear on the subject now.

                    - Steve
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      interesting.

                      mfg
                      wulfman
                      "Perhaps they communicate by changing colour? Like those sea creatures .."
                      "Lobsters?"
                      "Really? I didn't know they did that."
                      "Oh yes, red means help!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        great explenation!

                        Just curious: When is the flash fired when you select slow sync ? And when when rear sync is selected ?

                        You say the flash is triggered by the camera at the end of the front curtain travel; Nikon has Focal Plane sync on some cameras, which actually fires the flash before:



                        Jörg
                        pixar
                        Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, great explanation, thank you spadnos

                          VJ, Focal Plane Sync seems to be what spadnos explained in his last paragraph.

                          AZ
                          There's an Opera in my macbook.

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                          • #14
                            Oops... Yes, that is it... (but there is a nice graph on this topic on the Nikon website )

                            Jörg
                            pixar
                            Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow. (James Dean)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by VJ
                              Oops... Yes, that is it... (but there is a nice graph on this topic on the Nikon website )

                              Jörg
                              Yes, Yes - they have artists. I'm just a lowly programmer

                              Rear curtain sync fires "a little" before the rear curtain is released. That mode usually only works with strobes made by the camera manufacturer, so they know the flash duration, and trigger that much early.

                              I'm not sure when Slow Sync fires. The reason the mode is there is to allow longer exposures with flash for shooting flash illuminated subjects with dark backgrounds (portraits at night). The F100, for instance, normally uses 1/250 or 1/60 with flash, but in slow sync mode, you could use 1/30 or slower. They should fire the flash at the end of the exposure (this puts the hard illuminated image "over" any shaky blurred image), but I'm not sure if they do.

                              (I'd check, but my F100 has film in it right now )

                              - Steve

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