EU finances....

[Dr Mordrid]

http://afr.com/cgi-bin/newtextversions.pl?pagetype=printer&path=/articles/2003/11/26/1069522640641.html

At this rate, and with its insistance on social policies that deter economic growth, the EU will be more a historical footnote than anything else.....

Dr. Mordrid

[DukeP]

THis is really a badly written piece of paper Your quoting here...

The accord, endorsed by ministers from all 15 EU nations, suspended "for the time being" disciplinary measures against Paris and Berlin for failing to get their public deficits under 3.0 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).

(My italics).

This "agreement" was in no way "endorsed" by ministers from all 15 EU countries. There just werent any readible avilable solution to the problem at hand. Therefore some 1/3 of the ministers abstained from voting. The matter is hardly settled.

As for the rest??

I give that as much credit as the start. Perhaps the publication should start to check up on its fact on its own, instead of just copying Reuters.

~~DukeP~~

[Dr Mordrid]

Grammer is one thing. Changing the economic rules for the benefit of France and Germany and to the detriment of the rest of the EU, and its international financial standing, are something else. We'll see how it settles out, but if it's in the direction of what has been proposed it's not good news.

Dr. Mordrid

[DukeP]

Actually it isnt to the benefit of France and Germany.

I think its to the detriment of us all.

BUT this is what you get, when you employ a democratic system. You cant force the voters in Germany and France to select a more economic-conscious government. This is for themselves to decide.

The greatest strenght and largest weakness - Democracy.


~~DukeP~~

[Dr Mordrid]

That's why the US is a constitutionally limited republic with a federalist relationship between the state and central governments.

Dr. Mordrid

[DukeP]

Yeah well.. One chooses ones evils.
:P

~~DukeP~~

[Dr Mordrid]

Yup....and as is often said here: our form of government just happens to be a better "evil" than the other options.

Dr. Mordrid

[TransformX]

Originally posted by DukeP
Yeah well.. One chooses ones evils.
:P

~~DukeP~~

[Umfriend]

Actually, the Euro is still trading at US$ 1.1835 or thereabouts, so apprantly the market does not make a lot of this (yet).

It does not happen that often, but on this I fully agree with Mr. Zalm his resistance against Germany and France. We have problems enough changing our own economy and I feel it is wrong for Germany and France to use their budget deficit so as to still not have to make those changes. Meanwhile, we (and others) are going to pay the price, which so far in any case seems low however.

Back in 1998 I predicted that the Euro would lead Europe to war. I still think that is a real risk. I had expected however that Italy, Spain and France would be the culprits starting the breakdown of the european process, but alas, Germany has joined the club.

The new members coming in to join will nto help either, it would have been far better for both if they (re-)started their own economic/trade union and negotiated with the EU just like, say, the EU does with the US.

To the UK: Keep the pound, you're better off, even if it means you will structurally have higher mortgage rates than the continent.

I am only wondering whether there is not also a ploy in play to devalue the euro somewhat. We are already benefitting from the increasing US budget deficit, and would do more so with a cheaper euro.

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Yup....and as is often said here: our form of government just happens to be a better "evil" than the other options.

Dr. Mordrid

Wich goes hand in hand with another quote stating that in the US you vote on not the one you want but instead the lesser "evil"

[DukeP]

TransformerX:
I guess you have to - its not really a democracy.

How is one supposed to chose from ONE of only a handfull (two?) candidates?? FOr some they would be right, but for the entire population of the US? Surely they are not clones!!


~~DukeP~~

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Yup....and as is often said here: our form of government just happens to be a better "evil" than the other options.

Dr. Mordrid

Spoken like a true indoctrinee. Do you think there can be nothing better? What other options? Could the US Government work better under different circumstances? Where are the flaws?

I assert that the solution does not lie in the form of government, but in the morals, ability, training and attitude of those who govern. The "Oh so perfect US system" sucks when congress is just a bunch of lackeys for corporations and blindered interest groups and cannot command a common conscience due to a greater and greater lack of a common culture. If we were an absolute monarchy governed by someone with intelligence and ability and a sense of duty toward the governed, we might well be better off than we are now. As it stands, the US is a fake democracy.. about as democratic as England at the time of the Magna Carta. The Magna Carta did not grant any great freedom or democracy for anyone.. it gave the "nobles" more power. In the same way, corporations are the only real entities represented by the US government. The rest of us are just serfs. Tell me our way of life works when single mothers are not allowed daycare at work and have to leave toddlers at home in the care of an older (maybe 9yo) sibling because they can't afford any other option but that or quitting work and going on welfare. Then we just charge them with neglect and worse when something bad happens to their kids. The government doesn't give a shit about them. It only cares about the corporations and their CEOs' right to make $100,000,000.00 per year, while telling those single mothers that they can't afford daycare for them. And why are there so many single mothers in the first place? Well, that's the (multi) culture out of whack, which I won't get into.

Sorry for going on about it, but there is no considered thought in touting American federalism as "Better than anything else out there." If you want someone to believe it, prove it. As I said, you can't prove it. Why? because it's the wrong QUESTION! No form of government is worth a damn when corruption is the ingrained way of doing business and the people who are supposed to make government work do not have any sense of duty toward those who are governed.

[az]

I almost fully agree with you, KvH (Except the multiculture thing, of course )

AZ

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by az
I almost fully agree with you, KvH (Except the multiculture thing, of course )

AZ

Of course.. multiculturalism is the untouchable, unquestionable good. One dare not commit the thought crime of considering that it might be otherwise. Then we would not be conforming.. the EU might toss us in a mental institution.

[Umfriend]

They did with you, it's called the USA