DV files... type1/type 2 clarification, please.

[Nick Piercey]

Hi everyone,

I didn’t want to tread on KevinG’s toes so I started a new thread.

Forgive me I’m new to this DV lark. Although not to good “old fashioned” analogue capture and editing. I’m still using my “trusty” old RRS while I’m on the DV learning curve!

I’ve recently got a Pyro with MSPro6. Am I right in assuming it’s not the card, but the capture program, which dictates the file type.

E.g. The Ulead captures DV type 1 which is usable in MSPro6, obviously. But AVI_IO captures DV type 2, which although I can manipulate in Mediastudio cannot export unless I do a time consuming file convert. I assume that Premiere would handle the AVI_IO captured files perfectly.

I know that Markus is working on Direct Show capture using AVI_IO, so would I be correct in assuming that the Direct Show captured AVI_IO files would be DV type 1 and therefore useable in MSPro6?

Thanks, in advance,


Nick.

[Dr Mordrid]

Type1 DV files use a single stream of DV data, but are only compatible with applications that use the Microsoft DirectShow media system.

Type2 DV files use two streams of data. One is the original DV data, the second is a duplicate of the same PCM audio stream that is interleaved into the DV data stream.

The two data streams are required to be compatible with Microsoft's older Video-for-Windows media system. There is no difference in quality. They are just two different ways to store the digital data created by your camcorder.

The major differences between the two different file formats are:

Application compatiblity;

Type1 DV files are only compatible with DirectShow-compatible applications.

Type2 DV files are compatible with DirectShow, Video-for-Windows and QuickTime-compatible applications.

File length;

Type1 DV uses OpenDML, an updated *.avi feature that removes the file length limitations of the older Video-for-Windows system.

This means that the size of Type1 DV files are only limited by the file system. On Windows 2000 using NTFS this is *much* longer than any DV tape.

Type2 DV files are limited to 2 GB each, or just about 9 minutes in length. Some systems, like the RT-2000, use work-arounds to exceed this limit. In the RT-2000's case it's a serial capture system.

My experience is that I can load both Type1 and Type2 DV files in MSPro6. The main difference being that with Type2 files I have to load the audio track separately. The audio file doesn't load in automatically with the video file. Not a big problem.

Once in MSPro6 you can then render the output to Type1 or Type2, your choice.

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 28 November 2000).]

[Nick Piercey]

Thanks, Doc. Informative, as ever.

I think, though, you may have lost me a little.

When I load a Type 2 file into MsPro6 the audio loads automatically, it’s just that I can’t export it from the timeline, hence the need to convert the files to type 1.

As you say that type 2 files are compatible with “DirectShow, Video-for-Windows and QuickTime-compatible applications”, does this mean that the failure to export type 2 files directly from the timeline is a constraint of the Pyro or MSPro6?

As I tend to use AVI_IO (for it’s timer function) I don’t want to have to convert a couple of hours of TV stuff before being able to archive it to VHS.

So as AVI_IO currently uses the VFW wrapper it stores DV files as type 2, but when Markus releases the Direct Show version, will it store DV files as type 1, therefore making timeline playout easier without the need to file convert within MSPro6?

I hope I’ve explained my situation a little better!


Thanks for your patience, Doc.

Kind regards,

Nick.

[KevinG]

Nick,


Here is something I just stumbled onto. http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/...ML/002454.html

It might help.

[Nick Piercey]

Thanks Kevin for the link.


I think I'm even more confused now!?

I must have my MSPro6 set up incorrectly as I don't appear to get a particularly quick convertion between file types.

I'll follow it up on that thread and e mail Markus.... Hey if Markus's Direct Show captures in type 1 my problems are solved, but I now understand that Direct Show captures can be either types 1 or 2?

I've got a lot of learning to do.


Thanks for your help and to "The Doc", as ever,

Regards,


Nick.

[fluggo99]

Nick:

The inability to export Type 2 from the timeline is most likely a shortcoming in MediaStudio Pro. Why they did it, I'm not sure, but it may stem from the fact that OHCI cards require a Type 1 stream for output to DV. DirectShow can prep this up in real time, but Ulead may have wanted to avoid the trouble. That's a guess.

I don't know what Markus's plans for DV support are, but since DirectShow supports both Types 1 and 2, he will likely give you a choice. I recommend you stick with Type 1, if only for escaping the 2GB limitation Doc mentioned and keeping the ability to export from the timeline.

Incidentally, Microsoft has included with their DirectX 8 SDK a sample DV capture/playback program that supports both Types 1 and 2. If you don't want to bother downloading the SDK, I'd be happy to send you a copy if you email me.

[Nick Piercey]

Thanks fluggo99 for the kind offer,

I will use Ulead's capture program for holiday video stuff, but occasionally it's nice to capture a TV prog to the hard drive for later archiving. Hey, VH1(UK)are showing four hours of Beatles' programmes on Monday and I want to capture pretty much the whole lot and then archive the stuff I want. This is where Markus's little program really comes into its own!

I think that Markus may be on the brink of solving all our problems anyway. Here's his answer to my e mail...


"Hi Nick

The next major release will support Type 1 and 2 files - that is you can
choose the type of the files. In fact creating Type 1 files would even be
easier, but I'm not sure if MSP would accept Type 1 files contained in a
"standard" avi. Type 1 files are usually stored in an OpenDML 1.02 avi file,
and that's something AVI_IO can't create in the present version. Again, the
next major release will support standard, OpenDML 1.02 avi containers and in
case of DV Type 1 and Type 2.

Markus"

So for those who haven't got AVI_IO (probably few and far betweeen on this BB) a little $25 Christmas present to yourself would be ideal.

Kind regards, and thanks once agian,

Nick.