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  • reply to MUTZ and KvH

    I started this new thread and deleted my info in Ant's thread so as not to upset anyone in that thread.

    MUTZ says:
    Well, whitie kind of painted himself in the corner when he wanted slaves, servants, cheap labor, exotic sex kittens, etc., so now he reaps the fruit of his own greed - and weaknesses. Politics only came along later as just another synthetic ruse to climb to the top on the back of the problem for another gang of greedies. Everything catches up with you someday and politics are just an attempt to put it off 'til tomorrow and still try to rip off a bit more today. Can't have your cake and eat it to.
    Then KvH replied:


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by KvHagedorn
    WTF? How typical to think every white guy is somehow rich, or has no impediments to becoming so very easily just because he is white.. we all can't be sitting there nicely well off like you, mutz, preaching how whites deserve their fate because their ancestors were greedy 300 years ago, while the only whites who suffer are the regular working guys who were never greedy bastards.. certainly not yourself. You remind me very much of my ex-boss.. very nice in his way but also somewhat clueless in life. He's very liberal and does all the anti-Bush jokes and whatnot, but also greedy and rich. I honestly believe he would give money to some vagabond before he would help his own kids along in life in some substantial way. He is the very picture of what is wrongheaded about the liberal way of thinking.. it's so hypocritical and false and treasonous to one's own it makes me absolutely ill. It amazes me that people like this feel they have the right to just give away my future to assuage some misbegotten fake guilt of their own.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Then I replied to MUTZ abd KvH

    A-****ing-MEN!

    My co-worker, who is an Indian man from Bombay has told me on many occasions that a lot of people from India believe that America is JUST LIKE THE MOVIES! LMAO! He told me how amazed he was when he got here and found out that it is nothing like the movies. He had this whole vision of fake america in his mind because that is what everyone perceived it to be like.
    MUTZ, you wouldn't believe all of the luxuries I had growing up. Let's see, there was alcoholism, drug addiction, suicides, rehabs, going to Salvation Army for a free meal, theft, rape, gangs, shootings, living on the streets for weeks at a time, and probably a bazillion other things I can't think of off the top of my head. BTW, this all happened within my immediate family(My mom and I) when I was born until I was 10 years old. I won't even go into the boring parts when I get older until I end up in a wheelchair(which I am not in anymore). For christs sake, wake up and smell reality!
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  • #2
    Sounds like somebody should allready be doing their memoires...
    Harsh reading, im sure, but a bestseller none the less.

    ~~DukeP~~

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, whitie kind of painted himself in the corner when he wanted slaves, servants, cheap labor, exotic sex kittens, etc., so now he reaps the fruit of his own greed - and weaknesses.
      Apart from the fact that this is not something you can accuse any whitie, I submit that these treats are part of most of mankind, regardless of color, race and religion (not sure about sex).
      I am Dutch. We did bad things in Indonesia. I apologise. That's it and no one throw that up my face again for anything.

      Oh, and BTW, my father wasn't Dutch, so he didn't have anything to do with Indonesia, my mother was 5 yrs old, and my grandparents were vehemently opposed to what the government did at the time. I'm clear.
      Join MURCs Distributed Computing effort for Rosetta@Home and help fight Alzheimers, Cancer, Mad Cow disease and rising oil prices.
      [...]the pervading principle and abiding test of good breeding is the requirement of a substantial and patent waste of time. - Veblen

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      • #4
        Beautiful! Though somehow the context has gotten shifted and there seem to be a lot of assumptions. So often a nerve gets touched and out comes the raw stuff. Beautiful. Who wants to always pass around cookies at a tea party?

        You know nothing about me. I am speaking out of my life experience. Growing up as a white kid in the American South with all my true friends being black, living in New York, California, Oregon, living twenty years in Europe, ten in India, many in Asia, Australia, South Africa, and more, many simultaneously and mixed, and so what?

        I am talking out me, my guts, as I have lived things and as I see things. IMO whitie has painted himself in a corner and the wet paint on the floor is all human colors including white. By whitie I mean the major western powers and many of the individuals that make them up. What we have today has grown primarily out of the exploitations of the past, which in other guises we carry on today.

        We are so shocked when something happens to US. Sometimes we catch it for something we did, but often we catch it because of something somebody else we never heard of right now said or did, or somebody out somewhere in remote history said or did. I've been robbed, cheated, betrayed, shot, kicked and cut. Sometimes I know why and sometimes not. So what? I can only assimilate my experience, gain as much insight as I can, consider myself lucky and richer for the experience and move on. If I turn my energy to give back what I got, I am only going to get more of the same until I get the message and move on. I consider it a miracle I'm alive, and even more alive for my experiences. I must have a guardian angel somewhere.

        I'm not one for intellectualizing and theorizing at tea parties and cocktails. I put out my experience and insights undecorated the way it comes up. I'll reflect things the way I see it. It may suit you, it may not. Though I may care about you and your well being, I don't care what you or I think because the meanderings of a bio computer programmed mostly by other meandering bio computers is irrelevant and junk. Experience and insight arise out of reality, and somewhere beyond our individual selves. In that sense I don't have to "know" anything, it just is.

        So who cares who or what is right or wrong? Life is going to determine that anyway, whatever we may or may not think. Our deeds, misdeeds and non-deeds determine what comes next. Reality never listened to a single thought anybody ever had, though those who listen to reality are fortunate.

        So what are we on about here?
        How can you possibly take anything seriously?
        Who cares?

        Comment


        • #5
          blah blah blah... no culture is innocent. Every society is guilty of wrong doings to another culture or society.

          Jammrock
          “Inside every sane person there’s a madman struggling to get out”
          –The Light Fantastic, Terry Pratchett

          Comment


          • #6
            Agreed amd amen.
            How can you possibly take anything seriously?
            Who cares?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jammrock
              blah blah blah... no culture is innocent. Every society is guilty of wrong doings to another culture or society.

              Jammrock
              History is an interesting thing if you actually study it. Two things come to mind.

              1) The first slaves in Europe and the colonies (now USA) were whitie (sorry white )

              2) Most African slaves (not whitie ) were sold in to slavery by other non-whitie people from Africa. (whitie is a funny word that is also strangely offensive)

              Slavery was a world trade that really had less to do with skin color and more to do with money. The racial stuff followed after.

              Read a book or two, it helps.

              Jeff
              -We stop learning when We die, and some
              people just don't know They're dead yet!

              Member of the COC!
              Minister of Confused Knightly Defence (MCKD)

              Food for thought...
              - Remember when naps were a bad thing?
              - Remember 3 is the magic number....

              Comment


              • #8
                The Vikings used to capture and sell everyone they could make a profit off of. Catholic monks, surfs, Russians, French, British, other Scandinavians... They didn't care. Do you see other Europeans stills pissed off at the Viking decendents for it? No.

                Time heals all wounds. People will stop caring about things that happened in the USA and other slave trading countries centuries ago in another generation or two.

                Jammrock
                “Inside every sane person there’s a madman struggling to get out”
                –The Light Fantastic, Terry Pratchett

                Comment


                • #9
                  I dont think any white man, as a white man has to apoligize for creating the most advanced civilized society in the history of the world.

                  The USA didn't invent slavery but they did end it here. But as a matter of fact African Americans in the USA are the most economically prosperous on the planet, ever.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Jamm, what's your point? (no offense meant, I just don't get what you're hinting at)

                    AZ
                    There's an Opera in my macbook.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jammrock
                      The Vikings used to capture and sell everyone they could make a profit off of. Catholic monks, surfs, Russians, French, British, other Scandinavians... They didn't care. Do you see other Europeans stills pissed off at the Viking decendents for it? No.
                      ...
                      Jammrock
                      Actually thats not quite true.
                      The french still hates us for it.

                      And we didnt sell slaves, we traded in workforce.


                      The Vikings had a somewhat special look on slaves. Theres several historical texts about the household (and even the eldest son) of various vikings being left in care of a slave of the house.
                      Thats not to say that the life of viking slaves was enviable - but compared to the later centuries, it prob. wasnt that bad.

                      The looting of women was purely for breeding - its one of the reasons we are soo good looking today - we never inbred.

                      Actually we somewhat made amends, for being the first european country to stop the slave trade and release the slaves that was owned by the state.
                      Eventually we sold our african and atlantic colonies to the americans - no money to be had in those, when there where no more slave trade.


                      ~~DukeP~~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, history's only relevance is in terms of what we have now. Whether the many present day versions of history are correct or not is totally irrelevant, as the ethnic/racial groups that consider themselves victims of history will try to get as much mileage out of their version of history as they can.

                        The blacks have slavery and apartheid, the jews have the holocaust, the American Indians have genocide, the chinese have...etc. and all have prejudice, persecution, oppression. I don't know what the whites have to pull on, perhaps the Great Depression, or The War. Somebody?

                        Dunno. My ancestors left England for The New World in 1661 on the William & Mary fleeing from religious persecution. Of course they came with a land grant from Lord Baltimore that included the area which is now Maryland and even Washington DC. Can't say my whities' persecution was so bad.

                        Though Jam is right, if the human(?) race were to put all this stuff and history behind them and all hold hands nicely, everything would be just fine. But what I am seeing is that the not-yet-human race is in the throes of its evolution continually inventing new subtle and very unsubtle forms of prejudice, persecution and racial/ethnic/religeous hierarchies. Supposed "civilization" is just another form of the same thing, "developed", undeveloped, third world, mex, spic, nazi, arab, jew, slant-eye, hun, greaseball, yugo, turk, etc.

                        Someday there may well be a healing, but it looks to me like it will take quite a bit of blood yet for man to mature enough to join hands. The only things that change are those for which the individual is ready. You may think you know the way, but there are a few billion out there that never heard of you, don't want to hear about you 'cause they have enough to do cooking their own pot. From what I can see, whitie is the minority, but wants to be the dominating minority. If he doesn't come down and blend in, he's just going to get whittled away.

                        (PS: Looks to me like a good number of Americans' mentality is just like the movies and do their best to play it out in reality.)
                        Last edited by mutz; 10 October 2003, 01:38.
                        How can you possibly take anything seriously?
                        Who cares?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DukeP
                          Actually thats not quite true.
                          The french still hates us for it.
                          The French hate everyone who is not French. That doesn't count
                          And we didnt sell slaves, we traded in workforce.

                          LOL ... I guess that's one way of looking at it. I have a copy of Heimskringla at home. Good reading. The Vikings were the first equal oportunity employer. They didn't care who you were, they'd kill, rape and plunder everyone, including themselves.

                          The Vikings had a somewhat special look on slaves. Theres several historical texts about the household (and even the eldest son) of various vikings being left in care of a slave of the house.
                          Thats not to say that the life of viking slaves was enviable - but compared to the later centuries, it prob. wasnt that bad.

                          The looting of women was purely for breeding - its one of the reasons we are soo good looking today - we never inbred.

                          Like mine mor always said, there are 3 key factors that ended the Viking era:

                          1) The Black Plague
                          2) Christianity
                          3) Irish women

                          Jammrock
                          “Inside every sane person there’s a madman struggling to get out”
                          –The Light Fantastic, Terry Pratchett

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Every culture discriminates.

                            In America, there is ongoing discrimination over the color of your skin.

                            In the UK, your last name is far more important than your skin color. And most of the Tiggles-Wentwithingtons are white, wouldn't you know?

                            EVERY CULTURE DISCRIMINATES. Sorry to say.

                            - Gurm
                            The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                            I'm the least you could do
                            If only life were as easy as you
                            I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                            If only life were as easy as you
                            I would still get screwed

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Duty
                              History is an interesting thing if you actually study it. Two things come to mind.

                              1) The first slaves in Europe and the colonies (now USA) were whitie (sorry white )

                              2) Most African slaves (not whitie ) were sold in to slavery by other non-whitie people from Africa. (whitie is a funny word that is also strangely offensive)

                              Slavery was a world trade that really had less to do with skin color and more to do with money. The racial stuff followed after.

                              Read a book or two, it helps.

                              Jeff
                              Agreed. To top it off, most whiteys and crackas in the US today don't have anscestors that owned slaves. My family was in Italy until 1905 or so; long after slavery in the US. So this REALLY has nothing to do w/ me, but I'm bunched into the "evil" category because I'm white. Furthermore, just because Joe Schmoe had a great great Grandfather who owned a slave, doesn't mean that Joe Schmoe should pay.

                              And just like Duty said, it was black people selling the slaves to begin with.

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