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Joel
5th September 2003, 15:34
Draft Hillary Movement Launches in Florida

A Florida Democratic Party activist has launched an official "Draft Hillary" presidential committee, saying he believes next summer's Democratic Party convention in Boston will turn to Sen. Clinton after failing to unite behind one of the announced candidates now in the race.

"The only candidate who's left who can possibly take down [President] Bush - not in the violent sense - is Hillary Clinton," Robert Kunst told the Associated Press. Kunst recently launched a Web site - www.hillarynow.com - to build support for Mrs. Clinton.

On his Web site Kunst describes his effort as "a national and international grassroots draft Hillary Clinton campaign out of Florida, the scene of the stolen election of 2000."

Kunst is not alone. During her book tour, Sen. Clinton's supporters circulated petitions in bookstores urging her to run for the White House in 2004. And last week, Clinton staffers posted e-mail messages on her Web site FriendsofHillary.com - purportedly from fans who want her to challenge President Bush.

A Rasmussen poll released Tuesday shows Clinton gaining on President Bush, whom she trails by just 7 points. Before her book tour, she trailed Bush in most polls by 15 percent to 20 percent.

Sen. Clinton's repeated denials that she'll run next year haven't fazed Kunst, who told the AP, "I think Hillary has to make this statement, but I believe if the grass roots demands it, that it's a totally different picture."

When Sen. Clinton spotted Kunst holding his "Draft Hillary" sign at Monday's West Indian Day parade in New York City, she smiled and waved, he said.


Does anyone here really believe she has a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected??

Joel

GT98
5th September 2003, 15:43
Originally posted by Joel
Does anyone here really believe she has a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected??

Joel

uh yah... I said the same thing when she won the NY sentator seat

bsdgeek
5th September 2003, 15:45
Does she have a chance? Sure probably, would I vote for her? No.

Kruzin
5th September 2003, 20:56
Sure, she has a chance.
She would get the votes of all the bitter and cheated on women in the US. Many women would vote for her just because she's a woman. And women outnumber men.

But I'd never vote for her.

K6-III
5th September 2003, 21:26
I'd never vote for her...

MultimediaMan
5th September 2003, 21:47
Her past would most definitely come back to haunt her, and in very public ways....all of "those things" seem to have her fingerprints all over them.

Not to mention, ALLOWING her husband to cheat on her.

Guru
6th September 2003, 02:24
HAIG for President!

Joel
6th September 2003, 06:15
Her past would most definitely come back to haunt her, and in very public ways....all of "those things" seem to have her fingerprints all over them.

Not to mention, ALLOWING her husband to cheat on her.

Sorry this long but it is a interesting commentary on the subject.


How Hillary Can Win in 2004

There are times when Hillary Clinton must wish that her husband were dead.

Don't get me wrong. I want Bill Clinton to live a long and scandal-filled life. I have no plans to hurl an ashtray at the former beach-boy president. In fact, I would take a bullet for Bill Clinton if only to protect my income as a reporter.

However, if Hillary wants to win the White House, she could make it a cakewalk if Bill were pushing up daises.

Imagine Hillary running for president if Bill were suddenly to die. The former first lady would be the object of total sympathy, dressed in black, mourning and bemoaning her former hubby and his wondrous accomplishments.

The press would fawn over the widow, eulogize the former president and turn the campaign into one great big love Bill Clinton feast. It would only take hours for the mainstream media to begin a process of turning his years of corruption and stupidity into sainthood and genius.

Hillary could wear black all the way to the election. There would be monuments to uncover, stamps to remember and proposals for his face on the $3 bill.

Any effort to bring up tough subjects during debates would break bad on the competition. She could even wear black at the inauguration.

Hillary Groupies

Hillary's main following is made up of a core of emotional idiots and they would lap it up. This core is a personality cult similar to rock groupies, blind and oblivious to the real world as they swoon over the dear leader.

The subject of their adulation simply could never do wrong. This core has zero grasp of the facts behind Hillary's co-presidency with Bill nor do they care to hear of the mountains of scandal jointly created by the Clintons.

Now imagine Hillary running for president with Bill hanging around the campaign wings, waiting to become first lady once Hill gets the nod. She can't divorce Bill because not standing by her man, even after the Monica thing, would look bad.

Bill's shadow would follow her campaign like a waiting buzzard at every stop. Her association with Bill and their joint history of scandals from the previous eight years in the White House would hang over her head at every news conference.

Hillary's Bad Memory

Hillary has left way too many unanswered questions that the so-called press will not ask. In fact, Hillary's faded memory is so bad that she forgot, could not recall or had no recollection 250 times under oath.

Most Americans would be serving time for 250 "Duh, I forgot" count under oath. Not Hillary.

It is no secret that Hillary's past takes us through a pile of hard, cold cash from the Chinese army, Chinese army agents roaming the White House and photos with a wide variety of scoundrels.

For example, the one prominent name missing from Hillary's recent "tell-all" book is Riady. Mrs. Clinton failed to mention the Riady family at all. One would get the impression that the Riadys were not present in the Clinton White House. Hillary Clinton certainly overlooked listing the table settings and menus for White House dinners with the Riadys.

The Riadys knew the Clintons from their Arkansas years, when Moctar bought out a local bank. Moctar and his son James were close to Bill and Hillary through 1992 and into the White House. Moctar even owned the firm selected by Hillary Clinton to replace the White House travel office.

Riady and Hillary

Moctar and James Riady played a key role in bringing the Clintons to power in Washington. The Indonesian billionaire and his Lippo banking company managed to contribute large sums of money to the Clintons' campaigns even though it was against the law. Moctar's gardener contributed $450,000 directly to Bill Clinton in a single check. James Riady, Moctar's son, eventually pleaded guilty to campaign violations.

The connections between the Riadys and the Clintons have a much more sinister theme than simple foreign money inside U.S. elections. Testimony before the U.S. Senate revealed Moctar Riady's involvement in Chinese espionage. The Lippo Group is in fact a joint venture of China Resources, a trading and holding company "wholly owned" by the Chinese communist government and used as a front for Chinese espionage operations.

Mrs. Clinton not only knew the Riadys but took their money as well. To prove my point I need only to cite photographic evidence. Her picture with Moctar Riady is certainly damning evidence of a relationship that spanned several bank accounts and two decades. It is often said that a picture tells a thousand words. However, Hillary's pictures not only tell stories left out of her book but they also netted $10,000 each for the DNC in illegal donations.

Hillary's Most-Wanted

Mrs. Clinton has left us with a wide selection of photo evidence. Mrs. Clinton has had her photo taken with drug dealer Jorge Cabrera. Jorge donated a load of drug money to the DNC in order to get close to the first lady. Jorge is currently serving federal time for smuggling 3,000 pounds of cocaine into the United States.

Ironically, Jorge and Hillary were photographed in front of the White House Christmas tree.

Mrs. Clinton also has a virtual personal photo gallery of modern crime. It is almost as if she wanted to collect snapshots of herself and major crime figures.

For example, the co-presidents were photographed together with Macao criminal boss Ng Lapseng. Ng makes most of his money through the female-empowering career of prostitution.

Ng owns the Fortuna Hotel in Macao. You can stay overnight at the Fortuna for a reasonable price. In addition, you can also purchase the services of a Fortuna hostess for an additional nightly or hourly fee.

Ng frequently visited the Clintons with his close friend Charlie "Yah-Lin" Trie. It was through Charlie Trie that Ng also donated thousands of dollars to the Clintons.

Ng's Fortuna Hotel showed up again later in official State Department charges against the satellite division of Hughes. The Fortuna turned out to be a front for a Chinese army company that leased a Hughes satellite.

Hillary Clinton's close relationship with the Chinese army is all too well documented. The first lady was clearly involved with Chinese agent Johnny Chung and the penetration of Col. Lui of Chinese army unit COSTIND, the Chinese Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense.

According to the GAO, COSTIND "oversees development of China's weapon systems and is responsible for identifying and acquiring telecommunications technology applicable for military use."

Johnny Chung also had several photo sessions with both Clintons. Many of the photos appear in Mr. Chung's beer advertisements. Chung passed Chinese army money to the DNC through Mrs. Clinton. In return, a very young and attractive female PLA colonel and COSTIND computer information warfare specialist was allowed inside the White House to meet Bill Clinton.

So Many Scandals

Mrs. Clinton has so many skeletons in her closet that I am surprised her house does not rattle at night. I have written whole articles on Mark Jimenez, John Huang and Webster Hubbell. Mrs. Clinton is reported to have hired DNC operative and Mr. Chicken, Craig Livingstone. Mrs. Clinton abused U.S. military officers assigned to the White House as if they were trash, and her Rose office billing records reappeared through the mystery of time and space in her White House study.

Clearly, all the hard questions could be avoided if Hillary were to add one more skeleton to her closet Bill's. She could campaign as the widow and crush the opposition.

Bill, take good care of yourself. I suggest you take a long vacation and avoid national parks and airplane rides.

Joel

Brian Ellis
6th September 2003, 06:44
As if no other politician, in any country, EVER had anything to hide, not even close associates getting juicy contracts or dreaming up fiction to justify their acts or close family members being indicted or advisers being driven to suicide. :D It is facile to pick on any individual and rake up their past.

Joel
6th September 2003, 06:55
Oh I agree and as time gets closer more and more will come out, on both sides. I was just wondering how many thought that she could actually win considering her past.

This could be the time for the third party candidate.

Joel

rylan
6th September 2003, 09:21
God help us if she runs and wins.

Canada looks like a nice country, or maybe Australia.

Dr Mordrid
6th September 2003, 09:29
Over my cold, dead body :mad:

The LAST thing this country needs is another round with the Clintonistas, and a lot of mainstream Democrats I know agree, so it's not just a "vast right-wing conspiracy" thing at all. It's the lunatic fringe of far-leftists that keep trying to impose them on us again with a huge percentage of the rest of Americans retching at the thought.

Brian: I can understand your ignorance of the minutia of what happened here with the Clintons, but suffice to say that they set a new standard for corruption and sleaze....by orders of magnitude. When Bill left office you could hear 150 million people sighing in relief.

Dr. Mordrid

mutz
6th September 2003, 11:27
I always thought that in a democracy, the people voted for who they wanted as leaders. If Lincoln's quote is correct (see cjolley's sig), then why does everybody feel they have gotten fooled?

I'd be much more critical of the electorate and the electoral system than the elected.

I guess that's why people like the secrecy of the ballot so they can always point their fingers at others when things go wrong.

Strange how a majority can elect a candidate and another majority in the same term can dump on him and then turn around and put up another jerk with cheers and waving flags 'cause this jerk is saying what they want to hear this time around.

If you ask me, the majority are out of touch with their guts and common sense, full of illusions and inferiority complexes.

az
6th September 2003, 12:10
:up: mutz & brian. (and not because i like the clintons, which i don't, but because i like common sense and reflection)

AZ

Joel
6th September 2003, 12:41
Didn't you know. Common Sense died.


Today we mourn the passing of an old friend by the name of: COMMON SENSE.

Common Sense lived a long life but died in the United States from heart failure on the brink of the new millennium. No one really knows how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools, hospitals, homes, and factories helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness.

For decades, petty rules, silly laws, and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, and that life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn!), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it's okay to come in second. A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution.

Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends; body piercing, whole language, "new math" and Ebonics. But his health declined when he became infected with the "If-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus.

In recent decades his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of well intentioned but overbearing regulations. He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers. His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero-tolerance policies.

Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, a teen suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition. It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the parent when a female student was pregnant or wanted an abortion.

Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from the Boy Scouts to professional sports. Finally, when a woman, too stupid to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, was awarded a huge settlement, Common Sense threw in the towel.

As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments regarding questionable regulations such as those for low flow toilets, rocking chairs, and stepladders.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by two stepbrothers: My Rights, and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. We know that
God loves everyone, but He probably prefers "fruits of the spirit" over "religious nuts"!

Joel

rylan
6th September 2003, 13:26
Lol Joel. That post is funny, but so sad because its true.

I think a perfect example of what the crazy leftist dems are trying to do to this country (and what Hillary believes in) is the recent democratic debate. The 9 candidates were faling over each other with PC responses to the PC questions, trying to pander to Latinos and get as left as possible, while the debate questions were askedin Spanish -fist- and then translated into english *roll*

The scary thing is that Hillary is smart enough to fool enough people to vote for her, and a large majority of dumbasses will vote for her just because she is a "woman".

mutz
6th September 2003, 13:29
Good one Joel. Got something on listening to ones' gut feelings?

Sooner or later the pendelum will have to swing back, or all go down the tube. Evolution doesn't listen to anybody. What works is right.

Oh, and speaking of gut feelings, one look at Hillary and my gonads freeze up tight and duck out of sight. I don't blame Billy at all!

GT98
6th September 2003, 14:01
Originally posted by mutz

Oh, and speaking of gut feelings, one look at Hillary and my gonads freeze up tight and duck out of sight. I don't blame Billy at all!

Well if you ever met her in person...she comes across as very cold too. Billy has this aura about him...and I know why women would do what they did with him ;)

LOL I got to meet both of them in Baumholder before getting shipped out in Bosnia back in 1995 ;)

The PIT
6th September 2003, 14:20
Why don't you make History and go for Tony Blair ???? You can have him.

Joel
6th September 2003, 14:55
I got to meet both of them in Baumholder before getting shipped out in Bosnia back in 1995

And there's another thing. Clinton took us into Bosnia in the middle of a civil war. Ordered the carpet bombing of the area which killed numerous civilians and you heard very little criticism in the news about it. But Bush takes us into Afghanastan after a terrorist leader who had been involved in the murder of 3000 people and the destruction of the WTC and then into Iraq to overthrow a ruthless terrorist supporting dictator all the while doing everything he can to minimize civilian casualties and you hear nothing but criticism in the news. :rolleyes:

Joel

The PIT
6th September 2003, 15:02
Joel the war in Iraq was based on nothing as is coming out in the inquiry into the sucide of Dr Kelly. As MI5 said there was no connection between ALQ and Soddem. We're still waiting for the weapons of mass descruction. Last time I heard they've gone fishing for them. Still Tony's convinced they'll be found but then he has to be doesn't he.
This maybe the reason for critism you're now getting. If the weapons are found Bush Blah blah will be hero's but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Gurm
6th September 2003, 16:31
Mutz,

To address a point - the United States is NOT, technically speaking, a democracy. I don't think there is a functioning true democracy anywhere in the world.


The United States is a representative republic. Our state representatives are elected by popular vote, and they in turn elect the president.

This is why I repeatedly state that no third-party politician can possibly win the presidency, since our electoral college tends to vote along strictly party lines.

- Gurm

Jammrock
6th September 2003, 19:20
except in states where the law requires their electoral college members to vote according to the popular vote. more and more states are passing said laws, but the presidency is still won by whoever wins the most electoral votes. thus pres bush won the presidency, even thiugh gore technically had the majority of the popular vote.

Jammrock

Brian R.
6th September 2003, 19:27
Gosh, I wish someone besides Bush or Gore could have won that election.

Dr Mordrid
6th September 2003, 20:05
The other choice was Ralph Nader....not exactly a viable choice.

Dr. Mordrid

Brian Ellis
7th September 2003, 01:59
No, Doc, I agree -- but he would have been fun!!! :D

Admiral
7th September 2003, 05:58
Though I don't exactly give a rat's ass about it (you can guess what I voted) and think this thread stands on the edge of Lounge and Temp Forum, I think she has a great deal of chances of winning if she's nominated. For two simple and trivial reasons:

1. She's a woman, potentially the first woman president in history and many women (if not all) and feminists would vote for her.
2. Want it or not, Bush screwed up big time with the war in Iraq.

How competent she is or how "dirty", I don't know, but if she runs for president it will at least be a close race.

az
7th September 2003, 06:08
Why do you all think all women would vote for a woman just because she's a woman? Are all the women you know THAT stupid? Or would YOU vote for a candidate just because he's a man?

AZ

Admiral
7th September 2003, 06:57
I left room of interpretation about women, I didn't totally said all.
In my, maybe misguided, observation of American society, "clan attitude" seems to be a stronger and more frequent behavior than it is in Europe. Black sticks for black, latino for latino, gay for gay, feminists for women...
I can't totally make it a gender thing, it's also about a historical first. It could've been a black person running.

So, you've got a historical first coupled with a strong feminist feeling and discontent over the material and human sacrifices of the Iraq war. Not quite a neglectable base to start with.

Indiana
7th September 2003, 07:25
Originally posted by az
Why do you all think all women would vote for a woman just because she's a woman? Are all the women you know THAT stupid?
AZ

Unfortunately when you do discussions with women, it seems that most are THAT stupid / illogic.
It really doesn't matter if Hillary is a woman or a man or something inbetween (which would be the most appropriate in "her" case..), but what DOES matter is that she is maybe even more corrupt than BillyBoy Clinton and we did see what kind of policy we'd have to expect from her when she was president... (=the first year of Bill's presidency already had the US more or less under the reign of Hillary - with the effect that the Republicans gained one of the greatest victories in the following elections :rolleyes: )

Brian Ellis
7th September 2003, 07:37
It needs an ugly, uncharismatic, black, Jewish, practising lesbian, woman with communist, pacifist, anti-capital-punishment, pro-gun-control leanings to really be sure of winning :D

az
7th September 2003, 08:43
Indiana, you know the wrong women :D

AZ