DVD-RAM Capable Players, Recorders, Drives, Portables, Etc.

[Jerry Jones]

1. Hitachi

Professional DVD-RAM camcorder

http://www.hdal.com/products/products.ihtml?step=3&pid=1066&parent=51

Prosumer DVD-R/DVD-RAM camcorder

http://www.hitachi.com/tv/browse/camcorders/dvd/dvd_index.shtml

2. Toshiba

DVD VCR with 80gb hard drive and DVD-R/DVD-Ram support

http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/dvd/current/RDX2.html

3. Samsung

DVD VCR with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=DVD-R3000%2fXAA

4. Panasonic

DVD VCR with 40gb hard drive and DVD-R/DVD-RAM support

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16079&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DMR-HS2&CategoryId=2596

DVD VCR with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16077&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DMR-E30K&CategoryId=2596

DVD VCR with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16078&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DMR-E30S&CategoryId=2596

DVD portable player with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16050&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DVD-LV65&CategoryId=2978

DVD portable player with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16051&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DVD-LV50&CategoryId=2978

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=15826&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DVD-RP91K&CategoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16557&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DVD-RP91N&CategoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=15741&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DVD-XP50&CategoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16779&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DVD-CP72K&CategoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16780&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DVD-CP72S&CategoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16348&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=DVD-RP82&CategoryId=%202977

DVD-R/DVD-RAM camcorder:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/ModelTemplate.asp?ModelId=16154&show_all=false&product_exists=True&active=1&ModelNo=VDR-M20&CategoryId=2690

New model DVD-R/DVD-RAM camcorder:

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=344%20%0D

OEM DVD Multi computer drive with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/computer/storage/dvdram/prods/specs.htm

Retail DVD Multi computer drive with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.panasonic.com/office/templates/PDIC_BuyNow.asp?Category=1052&ModelNo=lf-d521u

5. LG

DVD MULTI drive with support for DVD-RAM *bare* discs:

http://www.lgeus.com/Product/CD/GMA4020b.asp

6. Teac

DVD MULTI drive with support for DVD-RAM:

http://www.teac.co.jp/dspd/product/optical/dv-w22e.html

7. Archos

DVD MULTI drive with support for DVD-RAM:

http://www.archos.com/lang=en/products/prw_500364.html

The above list is by no means exhaustive, but I think people who
survey this long list will open their minds to the notion that DVD-RAM is not only *already* in widespread use, but its trend in the
marketplace is characterized by *expansion* and *versatility* and *synergy* between DVD-RAM capable camcorders, DVD-RAM capable computers, and DVD-RAM capable DVD recorders (VCRs).

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Chrono_Wanderer]

woah. dvd-rams have sure coma along way. Let's hope a new DVD-RAM standard comes out for even more competibility

[VJ]

Re: DVD-RAM Capable Players, Recorders, Drives, Portables, Etc.

Thanks for the update !

Originally posted by Jerrold Jones
5. LG
DVD MULTI drive with support for DVD-RAM *bare* discs:

What do you mean by *bare* ? (don't all mentioned drives require the disc to be out of the casing ?)

(rats, still no SCSI model )


Jörg

[lecter]

Support for DVD-RAM is still very weak among most DVD-ROM drives...I think the battle is really only between + and - RW, RAM seems to have lost it already.

[VJ]

Myes, but there are still some models that support DVD-RAM (I have the Toshiba SDM1612) as well. Depending on your purpose, I think it has its uses (e.g. for your own backups).


Jörg

[Jerry Jones]

To clarify for Jorg, there are nine types of cartridges for DVD-RAM discs.

http://www.optodisc.com/d_word_d.htm

Optodisc, a leading manufacturer of blank media, explains on this Web page that there are TYPE 1 DVD-RAM cartridges where the bare DVD-RAM disc is non-removable.

Then there are Type 2 and Type 4 cartridges where the bare DVD-RAM disc *is* removable.

Then there are empty caddies that can be purchased.

And, of course, there are two different sizes of discs...

...the small DVD-RAM 'mini' discs are for camcorders...

...the larger DVD-RAM discs are for drives and stand alone recorders.

DVD-RAM has not 'lost' by any stretch of the imagination.

In fact, DVD-RAM is the only disc that currently 'bridges' the various consumer uses...

1. camcorders
2. drives
3. stand alone players
4. stand alone recorders

Optodisc has created this illustration:

http://www.optodisc.com/d_word_a.htm

You will note...

1. There are *no* DVD+RW camcorders

2. There is only *one* DVD+RW stand alone recorder vs. at least *five* DVD-R/DVD-RAM stand alone recorder models from three different manufacturers

1. Hitachi

Professional DVD-RAM camcorder

http://www.hdal.com/products/produc...=1066&parent=51

Prosumer DVD-R/DVD-RAM camcorder

http://www.hitachi.com/tv/browse/ca...dvd_index.shtml

2. Toshiba

DVD VCR with 80gb hard drive and DVD-R/DVD-Ram support

http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/dvd/current/RDX2.html

3. Samsung

DVD VCR with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/n...DVD-R3000%2fXAA

4. Panasonic

DVD VCR with 40gb hard drive and DVD-R/DVD-RAM support

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...CategoryId=2596

DVD VCR with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...CategoryId=2596

DVD VCR with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...CategoryId=2596

DVD portable player with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...CategoryId=2978

DVD portable player with DVD-R/DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...CategoryId=2978

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...egoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...egoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...egoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...egoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...egoryId=%202977

DVD player with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...egoryId=%202977

DVD-R/DVD-RAM camcorder:

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sh...CategoryId=2690

New model DVD-R/DVD-RAM camcorder:

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_e...nt_id=344%20%0D

OEM DVD Multi computer drive with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial...prods/specs.htm

Retail DVD Multi computer drive with DVD-RAM support:

http://www.panasonic.com/office/tem...odelNo=lf-d521u

5. LG

DVD MULTI drive with support for DVD-RAM *bare* discs:

http://www.lgeus.com/Product/CD/GMA4020b.asp

6. Teac

DVD MULTI drive with support for DVD-RAM:

http://www.teac.co.jp/dspd/product/optical/dv-w22e.html

7. Archos

DVD MULTI drive with support for DVD-RAM:

http://www.archos.com/lang=en/products/prw_500364.html

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Snake-Eyes]

What's really ironic about all this is that I finally bought myself a Sony DRX500UL (combo DVR-R/+R & DVD-RW/+RW drive). While I was looking around local stores for various media to test in it I noticed a couple things:

1) There were very few stores carrying the DVD-RAM or -R type drives or media. Most had plenty of several different models of +R / RW drives.
2) Prices for the drives varied little between the formats (except of course, for my combo model, since it does both AND is external, which drove the price up around $100 - $150 over the single type internal units).
3) Prices for the media blew my mind. Not because I expected prices to be the same as CD media has been, but because I found that the +R / RW media was anywhere from 10% to 25% cheaper per disc than comparable packages of -R media. (as an example, Best Buy had 10 packs of +R discs for around $36, while the 10 packs of -R were closer to $50. The same held true for all the media that they had on the shelf. Meanwhile, the +R / +RW 10 / 12 pack discs I purchased at Sam's Club, which are Verbatim brand, were $24 and $27, respectively.)

If -R is winning the war, how come nobody's carrying drives for the format, and how come the media is so much more expensive (btw, that's comparing within a single brand of media)?

[Hulk]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the RAM format taking a large percentage of the DVD "+/-" market. Just my opinion of course. For my use, +R/RW works perfectly.

What do you do with discs?
I archive data. Any of the formats will do that. Drop and drag doesn't matter for me since I'm archiving. My hard discs are large enough for temporary, accessible storage, and MUCH faster.

I make DVD's. I am still amazed by how flawlessly my DVD +R's and +RW's work in my set top player. I have created many DVD's with motion menu's numerous nested menu's, tons of chapters, and EVERY SINGLE FEATURE WORKS FLAWLESSLY. Frame advance, slow mo, ff, chapter skip, everything. I'm not trying to cheerlead my format here, I'm just amazed that I can make a DVD RW, go downstairs and test it, make revisions, and then burn the final +R. It's such a money saver!

I don't think the RAM formats hold enough data for videotaping. At normal dv standard you would only get about 20 minutes right? But they use MPEG-2 format, not a very editable format.

We'll see what happens in the next few years...

-Mark

[Jerry Jones]

Snake-Eyes, my only response would be this:

What you're observing is a narrow view.

You are observing only 'after-market' computer drive sales to consumers in stores such as Best Buy and CompUSA.

DVD-RAM discs here in Boise, Idaho sell in CompUSA for one dollar less than DVD+RW discs.

DVD-RAM sells for $5.99.

DVD+RW sells for $6.99.

It's true that after market drives on the store shelves are mostly DVD+RW.

But that's only a small part of what's happening.

As I mentioned before, the consumer stand-alone DVD recorder market is dominated by DVD-R/DVD-RAM units by Toshiba, Samsung, and Panasonic.

Chances are your local Best Buy is only going to carry the single Philips DVD+RW recorder that exists.

Chances are your local Best Buy will also carry only one of the three Panasonic recorders that are available.

But there are currently more DVD-R/DVD-RAM stand alone recorders.

There are currently more DVD-R/DVD-RAM portable players.

There are currently *only* DVD-R/DVD-RAM camcorders in existence.

There are *no* DVD+RW camcorders in existence.

Sony will soon be offering a new line of DVD camcorders.

Sony has opted for the DVD-R/DVD-RW format and not the DVD+R/DVD+RW format for those new camcorders.

That's telling.

The OEM computer drive sales are the part of the equation that you missed.

In the OEM world, the DVD-R/DVD-RW drives have a 70 - 75% market share advantage, according to a study done by the Yankee Group.

This is due to the fact the Pioneer DVR-A03 drive was first to the market via the following:

1. Apple (imacs/G4s)
2. Sony (early Vaio line)
3. Compaq (early Presarios)

For a long time, Gateway offered DVD-R/DVD-RAM drives until their recent switch to DVD-R/DVD-RW.

IBM still offers DVD-R/DVD-RAM drives and has now begun to offer DVD MULTI drives that support DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD-RAM, CD-R, and CD-RW:

http://www.pc.ibm.com/qtechinfo/MIGR-44906.html?lang=en_UK&page=brand&brand=IBM+NetVista&doctype=&subtype=Cat

So my point is - in summary - that this race is not going to be decided by what one observes on the store shelves at Best Buy.

That's only a minute part of the story of what's happening.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Ted222]

Ahhh....and then there is Digital VHS....maybe followed buy Digital HI-8/MiniDV etc.....low tech and extremely versital....

With the potential for mass amounts of data(HD), I think thats where we will end up...

Oh, and Meritline.com sells blank DVDs in all formats extremely cheap. I have used them and my experience has been that they all work nicely on DVD players less than 6 months old.


Ted

[Snake-Eyes]

Yes, formats are continually changing, Ted222. Otherwise we'd still be using cassettes for recording music. (wait, I still have a deck and a bunch of unused tapes.. )

As far as the retail stores / inventory being a minute part of what's going on, Jerrold, I disagree. At least in the minute part. I fully understand that there are other devices that have mostly settled on -R/RAM formats, but retail stores have a large impact on what people will buy and use, since many people buy PCs before getting things like burners, as they wait for the price of the technology and media for it to drop to a sweet spot. What they see as the most convenient to buy locally will strongly influence their decisions. (I have a strong hunch that the majority of those using DVD burners right now are still enthusiasts or people that have a job that requires such technology, and not the larger market of the everyday home user, which is the same place CD burners are currently flourishing).

Note: I'm not endorsing any one format over the others. I've just been commenting on what I see. (This is actually why I chose the Sony burner over others right now, as other than the DVD-RAM format, it's largely future-proof, at least to the extent that I'll be able to buy media no matter which finally comes out on top. )

[Hulk]

True or not, I think many people think the newer "+" format is superior to the older "-" format. Most people automatically think that in terms of technology, the newer format must be better. I know it doesn't really make sense, but I think there is some truth in it.

Recordable discs are a non issue in cameras at this point in time. Sales are insignificant and will remain that way until a really new, higher storage technology comes along.

As for Sony putting "-" drives in their laptops, it's probably that they were available first and at a better rate than the new "+" drives. Remember that Sony is primarily interested in making money. I don't think that decision is ominous in any way. Remember that it takes a while to miniaturize components for laptop use.

Apple is so far behind now that they are irrelevant. They just wanted to be first with a DVD recordable drive and would have jammed anything that could write a DVD in their systems for advertising purposes.

In my opinion, none of what you mentioned is too significant since it’s all a factor of the “-“ format being first to market. I think it’s remarkable that “+” has closed the gap so quickly.

[VJ]

Originally posted by Jerrold Jones
To clarify for Jorg, there are nine types of cartridges for DVD-RAM discs.

http://www.optodisc.com/d_word_d.htm

Optodisc, a leading manufacturer of blank media, explains on this Web page that there are TYPE 1 DVD-RAM cartridges where the bare DVD-RAM disc is non-removable.

Then there are Type 2 and Type 4 cartridges where the bare DVD-RAM disc *is* removable.

Thanks !

But what I meant to say: Does the LG differ in this aspect ? I thought all the drives in your list require a DVD-RAM disc to be removed from its cartridge...


Jörg

[Jerry Jones]

Jorg,

The answer is that the following Panasonic models...

1. LF-D311 (OEM DVD-R/DVD-RAM)
2. LF-D321 (retail DVD-R/DVD-RAM)
3. SW-9571 (OEM DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD-RAM)
4. LF-D521 (retail DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD-RAM)

...do *NOT* require you to remove DVD-RAM discs from their cartridges.

The DEEP-DISH tray on the above PANASONIC drives is designed to accept either bare *OR* cartridge-enclosed DVD-RAM discs.

This is the reason why I'm not particularly fond of the LG GMA-4020B (which is the IBM Multi-Burner).

The LG drive only accepts bare DVD-RAM discs.

So the moral of the story is that when one is shopping for a DVD-RAM-capable drive, you would be wise to check and make certain that the drive features a deep-dish tray that will accept both bare and cartridge DVD-RAM media.

This saves a lot of time and hassle and it may, in the case of Type 1 DVD-RAM cartridges, make the difference between being able to read a DVD-RAM disc or not read it.

If you're only a once-in-a-while user of DVD-RAM discs, then I think the LG drive (IBM Multi-Burner) is fine.

But if you're a heavy user of DVD-RAM (as I am), then the Panasonic drives make much more sense.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

By the way, I can't stress enough how important it is for a disc to be protected by a cartridge.

DVD-RAM was designed to protect mission-critical data.

Think about it.

Which disc would you want to protect your most precious home videos?

A DVD+R disc with a multitude of finger prints and scratches?

Or a DVD-RAM disc that has been protected from prints, dust, and scratches over a period of X number of years?

You have to admit... DVD-RAM cartridge-enclosed discs offer more protection from physical impediments:

http://www.optodisc.com/v_dvd-ram.html

http://www.optodisc.com/d_word_d.htm

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net