View Full Version : Red Submarine computers

4th January 2003, 09:11
It is not my way to complain, but I feel a duty to others. So if you are considering having Red Submarine custom build your audio or video computer..a word to the wise...don't do it. Throw the money away, take your life, whatever, it will be less painful. Because they install Matrox systems this is relevant to this board. If you need further info then just email me and I will give the exhaustive details....or let this warning be enough. Act in haste, repent at your leisure.

4th January 2003, 09:13
Why wouldn't you just post the details here. THen you wouldn't have to email people. Why would we give our email addresses to some complete stranger?

4th January 2003, 09:18
cos its a spam gathering exercise......


4th January 2003, 12:13
yeah..that's true...but since the experience I had was so surrealistic and involved such a mother lode of rapacious indifferent sociopathic behavior that I was a little reluctant to go into detail about what incredibly nasty lying scum these people are...and wanted to reserve my comments for someone who was actually looking at buying from them. I guess there are a lot of things I could have done but this is what I did. Why should I put all that information out there for all the people who aren't going to be buying from them?...sort of a need to know thing.

and it was not a spam gathering exercise, that's just one of my hotmail addresses and EVERYTHING goes into junk mail. I look through it and often just delete the whole folder...are we all on the same page here (no pun intended)?

4th January 2003, 14:58
Again, it would be simpler just to post it here. You'd only have to do it once and if people did not want to read it, they would not and for any other places/emails you could just copy and paste.

5th January 2003, 04:34
Here is a copy of an email that I sent out this morning. I hope your curiosity is sated

"I'll do my best here. I'll forget things and miss details but mostly you will get the picture.

first, I worked very patiently with the salesman with whom I was very clear about my needs and also my lack of knowledge. every time I asked a question he acted like I was taking up too much of his time. He assured me of many things that were later not true, nor clear, just to get rid of me.

I was spending thousands of dollars and would have expected better treatment. I often felt I was trying to purchase something from one of those agressive New York sound shops where the attitude is; "You want to buy something or what? I'm busy.

I was a fool for continuing at this point where the vibes were bad. That is my mistake. But I wanted the system. I was up against a deadline for important projects. I should have looked elsewhere.

Then it took over a month to deliver it (and I had a serious timeline) because their tech did not understand how to install a double boot; something they offered as a feature. I was being led to think that it was my fault for asking for it in the first place.

Then it arrived, haphazardly stuck into a box that was nearly spilling its contents out of the side when it got here.

One of the reasons I went with them was the offer of good support. When I tried to get support to interface what the salesman guaranteed me would do the job i was treated like a moron by one of their tech's, insufferably so. he even went so far as to insult my choices of software. Later another member of the firm admitted he would not have handled my requests this way.

When I had questions about how to interface my monitoring system...which I had painstakingly gone over with the salesman...they had no idea how to assist me in what proved to be a simple matter that I had to figure out for myself. In fact I HAD TO FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT FOR MYSELF.

They wouldn't let me exchange anything, all uninjured, for anything that would have made the system more effective or compatible. And they treated me like shit. I often got the feeling that they were drunk, on drugs or generally unorganized and certainly ill informed.

Then Bootstar, which they used to create the dual boot, started giving me messages that my trial period had run out and I needed the code to operate it. On contacting the tech he appologized and said he would send me the CD and the code. He never did. I repeatedly requested it and got nothing. I had to go buy it on my own.

Earlier I was blamed for them having to use Bootstar in the first place to figure out the dual boot like it was my fault that they didn't know what they were doing.

I got angry and after that I got nothing. So I was stuck with an ineffective system and hard up against a deadline. This wound up costing me a great deal in terms of reputation and personal stress...and they just didn't give a shit. I've had a very few companies in my life treat me this way, most notably DHL...never one with whom I was spending so much money.

They told me if I needed tuition to run the system I ordered then I could pay them for it. My problems were not about recording and mastering...they were about the system entire and it's meeting my needs.

I have left out a number of related injuries simply for brevities sake. On the whole they treated me like I was an annoying moron, they disparaged my work, they disparaged my choices, they attacked my arguments for understanding and fairplay.

It has taken me real time and money to get this thing working and I now find I could have had a perfect system for half the money. They basically just loaded me up and sent me on my way. Only one person in that company gave me any understanding and then all of a sudden someone in the company told him not to help me any more. I was left high and dry and disappointed and I am damn well going to let all and sundry know.

I can't get my money nor my time back but I can get some justice by letting as much of the world as I can reach know about it...AND I AM GOING TO DO THIS to the tune of a couple of hours a day of posting here and there until I feel I have exhausted all outlets for notice...and until I feel that somehow their treatment of me has cost them more than they cost me. I gave them months to resolve this, to treat me more humanely. I told them I would publicize their treatment. I got your basic, "so what, **** off."

I hate being put in this position. I found myself writng an email saying, "I hate you!" imagine how juvenile and impotent that made me feel? Yeah, I'm just one of the little guys. So many companies in the world feel this way; like merchants in a shop in the tropics..."screw the customers, we'll get different people next year."

I hate this loss of care and concern, not to mention integrity. I especially hate being put in this position. I can't go into the amount of frustration, time and money this has cost me. I was all geared up to do something. I was so excited. I couldn't wait to get my Red Submarine computer and sail off into this creative frenzy...and the whole series of events just tore holes in my sails and left me with the taste of shit and ashes in my mouth. They also cost me that top of the line Guild 12 string that I was going to get if all went well. It didn't and I didn't.

Well...I've figured it out mostly now. The system still crashes inexplicitly as it did from the beginning but I'm getting by and I'm getting things done. I just regret the loss of all the good feeling I had in the beginning. And I had saved for this...I have sacrificed many things to manifest this dream. I have and I will...they could have done a whole lot better....

just the worst overall experience with a merchant that I can remember. You can do much better elsewhere. Anyway. that's my story, I hope it doesn't turn into your story.

Warm Regards,

Les Visible"

5th January 2003, 12:55
Damn, that does suck. As for feeling Jevenille, sometimes you just need to vent. Certain relatives of mine sent such letters to a certain other memeber of the family. It's a catharsis. It helps at least some. Obviously you had plenty of reason to be mad. I never get system from someplace I do not know. I've gotten them from Gateway, HP, Best Buy, a place called ECS that came highly recommended by people I trust to actually give me a recomendation. I did get a DVD drive once where they gave me this sort of treatment. Unfortunately you got burned much worse. Sorry about not wanting to give out email addresses. Many of us here have learned to be cynical about that sort of thing.

Keep posting here. Just hopefully for less stressful reasons. ;) You'll learn a lot, like a few of us and hate a few of us. :D

5th January 2003, 14:23
Yeah...I appreciate what you say and I probably would continue to post here but I don't own any products from this company. I wound up here because I am going to every forum of every manufacturer who does business with Red Submarine and I am posting this information. I won't stop till I know that I have deterred at least 10 people from purchasing systems from them...and I WILL accomplish this. I refuse to let arrogant corporate sociopaths screw me over. This is a very successful tactic and I have had an impact when I have had to use it. It is a lot of work but the personal reward is great.

5th January 2003, 17:12
OK if you are hell-bent on letting the world know about this experience, have you tried any of these?

1) Better Business Bureau (they have helped tons of folks when a reputation was in jeopardy)

2)if you still cant get any resolution, you can picket in front of thier headquarters or the shop and alert the media as to why (get a permit from city hall first tho)

3) contact the local tv station......most stations love to stir up controvercy to boost ratings/raise public awareness

5th January 2003, 17:33
you know, those are all damn good ideas, unfortunately geography rules them all out. I live in the Black Forest near Basel Switzerland. They are located in England. I haven't looked into any of the internet sites for consumer protection (i know there must be something).....I'll tell you though, I got this David and Goliath thing. I hate injustice and oppression...NO MATTER WHO IT HAPPENS TO. And I know it is the apathy of so many people that makes these people think they can just blithely go about the business of porking the consumer. You know, it's not about the money (maybe just a little)...my feelings got really hurt. I was like a little kid waiting for my super workstation. There is very little I want from this planet; natural space to move in, the company of my friends and the opportunity to stay creative every waking moment. I was like an eight year old kid waiting for Christmas...and to top it off, they ridiculed me...seriously smirking chimps. I know for a fact they would of none of them tried that in person. And then they wrote me off. I'm surprised they were able to find that many jerks to work for one company. And finally they cost me the guitar of my dreams, the top of the line 12 string guild. Oh well. I got the distinct impression they were laughing at my music too....no reason for that...just cause they are techno headbangers and I write from a more poetic space. Hey, if you're ever on KaZaA you can download some of my stuff....you just search for Les Visible. Thanks for your imput man, it's real late here and I see I'm starting to lose it. Aloha.

5th January 2003, 18:01
why not contact people in England that can do preliminary research on the company for you, or contact the local media to start investigating

then schedule a meeting with the higherups and let them know the media will be notified if the outcome is not acceptable

5th January 2003, 18:05
I will give that serious consideration. Thanks

6th January 2003, 02:17
Originally posted by Visible
They are located in England...

Uhm, where abouts?

Edit : Are these them? http://www.sub.co.uk/

6th January 2003, 05:43
Try the following link.


Allthough its a uk org, they may be able to help you out.

Regards MD

6th January 2003, 05:52
I've met people like this. They're the same all over the world.

The shops I've worked for have been very specifically the kind that really care about the systems they put together.

But there are lots that don't, for whom customers are a commodity. Bleh.

- Gurm

6th January 2003, 06:30
http://www.sub.co.uk/...yeah...that's them Taz

6th January 2003, 08:57
How did you hear about them, was it through an advert in a music magazine?