one in the eye....

[RedRed]

For Dr M:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/

RedRed

[Novdid]

Red, I have given up trying to discuss these things a long time ago. I see you have more soul than I've ever had!

Better get those flamepants on BTW!!!

[CHHAS]

Well, that should certainly spark debate and boost sales.

[Brian R.]

I wouldn't be surprised if Red was only demonstrating how ridiculous the rag is.

[KvHagedorn]

Yes, as you can tell just by looking at the cover pages, The Mirror is obviously a paragon of fine journalism...

[RedRed]

actually, its still the third bigest seller. It was at one time considered to be the only 'true' labour supporting paper in the UK...

I just wanted to demonstrate that even amongst the 'allies', there is a strong opposition to war in the gulf.

I wont loose my appetite for this!
Asbestosed up!

RedRed

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by RedRed
actually, its still the third bigest seller.

Ahh well, if it sells, it's ok to write anything isn't it? Sounds pretty capitalistic for a "true labour" paper..

Wow, Red.. you are really sporting for a fight eh? LOL.. why don't you go outside and exercise? It's better for you.

[RedRed]

KvH its not a bad rag, for a tabloid.....


I am more of a broadsheet man myself, but this was in response to the Sun posting of Dr M last week - now thats gutterpress....

read the leading article on this link..... its not badly written.....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...l&siteid=50143

Seems that the UN arms inspectors feel that its the US & UK secret services who are holding back on them, more than the Iraqis!

RedRed

[RedRed]

Kv:

RedRed

[Dr Mordrid]

So sales determines quality of journalism? Right.....but even over here we have the National Enquirer which has a rep as gutter press but regularly scoops the major media. As a matter of fact for the last 5-6 years they've done some of the best investigative journalism on this side of the pond. Strange bedfellows in that rag.

As for no support in the gulf: seems a pretty odd conclusion considering so many of those countries are bellying up to the "lets get rid of the SOB" bar. Might be they're afraid of an armed madman on their borders, as well they should be.

I think when this party starts there'll be a lot more nations participating than you guys are anticipating. As it stands now it's the US, the UK, likely the French (see below), Denmark, Norway, several of the former Warsaw Pact nations, Spain, Turkey and the list is growing. I wouldn't be a bit suprised if the Germans are there when push comes to shove.

I see even the French are ready to support a resolution supporting military action in the UN Security Council when it comes out. That follows their pattern of looking contrary to start with, probably so their credibility is enhanced later, then swinging around at the last minute so they don't miss out on any post-war advantages.

Given that Iraq cancelled Russias precious oil leases and the Chinese will likely go along with what the others do (normal for them) I doubt they'll do much worse than abstain.

That IMHO pretty much puts a nail in it.

Dr. Mordrid

[Joel]

Seems that the UN arms inspectors feel that its the US & UK secret services who are holding back on them, more than the Iraqis!

That doesn't seem to be how the chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix feels.

Iraq's weapons declaration contains "inconsistencies" and leaves many questions unanswered, chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix told the Security Council on Thursday.

At a closed council meeting, Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, provided initial assessments of the 12,000-page declaration.

In the biological area, the latest report did not include a table that Iraq submitted previously, according to a copy of Blix's remarks that was distributed after the meeting.

"This table has been omitted from the current declaration and the reasons for the omission need to be explained," Blix said.

ElBaradei said Iraq also needed to provide answers and evidence regarding Iraq's recent purchase of aluminum tubes. The top U.N. nuclear inspector also found little new in the 12,000-page declaration.

The Bush administration is denouncing gaps, omissions and other major troubles with the Iraqi weapons declaration, setting the United States on a course to possible war with Saddam Hussein early next year.

Speaking after the meeting, both Blix and ElBaradei complained about the quality of Iraq's report.

"An opportunity was missed in the declaration to give a lot of evidence," Blix said. "They can still provide it orally but it would have been better if it was in the declaration."

ElBaradei noted that the Iraqis have been opening doors for inspectors on the ground but said: "We have not gotten what we need in terms of additional evidence."

Joel

[thop]

on Thursday, look up what he said on Friday.

[RedRed]

So sales determines quality of journalism?

no, that was an argument us used in the last thread...

As for no support in the gulf

That is NOT what I said. What I said is that even among its allies, many people feel that this US led adventure is a bad idea - and that their countries should have no part in it.

Denmark, Norway, several of the former Warsaw Pact nations, Spain

I think you are confusing those countries which are actively upholding CURRENT embargoresolutions and allies in subsequent adventures. I have heard nothing about the countries listed as having signed up to a new Iraq war. - I will stand corrected if you can demonstrate this.

I wouldn't be a bit suprised if the Germans are there when push comes to shove.

I would be VERY surprised if german troops or materil was used! it would be unconstitutional for them, surely?


That the US will go to war - it think there is little doubt.

France may well go. the second UN resolution is what they wanted. You were saying before that you did not believe that there would be a second resolution - and that it was not necessary. For France to be included in any offensive operation it will be. It values its seat on the security council and the international prestege it gets from that and it said that it would need such a resolution to cooperate - and its stubbourn enough to do so.

USSR - I dont think so -though perhaps a token gesture. The TOTAL USSR militatry budget is less now than france, and they have problems enough with Chechneia and commitments in the balkans. Also they were traditional allies of Iraq, and couldnt be seen to do anything more than abstain

RedRed

[K6-III]

USSR no longer exists.

Russia.

[RedRed]

OK k6 point taken, but the rest of it stands....

RedRed