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_hSUBpar_
13th December 2002, 17:55
Well, I was asked to post this. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but he asked nicely so I'm posting it. Peace.

--------------------------

Hiya MURC. Gurm here. This is a swan song of sorts.

'member how I said that I was willing to lose my MURC account over principles? Well here goes.

I don't lie. I push buttons, I make outrageous claims (like inventing the question mark), I offend nearly everyone... but I don't lie to you.

Then we have someone else. He has a history of lying to cover his ass. I think if you look back a few weeks you might see the same thing happening to poor Buddman. But he's a newbie, so it's "ok", right? It's ok for a moderator to push him around and lie about it.

Well you know what? It's never ok. You wanna be a mod, then dammit take responsibility for your actions. You wanna delete posts - admit you deleted 'em. You wanna delete posts JUST 'CUZ YOU'RE IN A BAD MOOD? No problem. But don't deny it afterwards.

So here's the deal. I'm out. Greebe somehow thinks he and I are (were) "friends". I don't see how that works, when you do what he did. I won't even go INTO some of the OTHER stuff he's done. I'll just let your imaginations percolate on it, and maybe the slighted parties will feel like elaborating (it's not my place, in a situation like that).

So there we go. I like to think that I made some friends here. But apparently when it comes right down to it, in the court of MURC I'm a liar, and Greebe tells the truth despite evidence to the contrary. Apparently that "mod" next to his name makes all the difference when judging the veracity of his statements.

I've got an open invitation to join Jorden over on his forums. He's a freak, and I disagree with him more often than not. But he doesn't delete my posts just because I like IE and he likes Mozilla... and he certainly doesn't lie about it afterwards.

This post will get deleted, I'm sure. Hope you all get to read it quickly, since I won't be reposting it.

Will I miss you? Yep, some of ya. You all know where to find me if you need something.

Ok, that's all. I'm done, and out.

Oh, and one last thing:

**** U GREEBE.

And Ant and Joel can get bent right alongside ya.

--------------------------

Novdid
13th December 2002, 18:01
Fare well then.

I missed everything so I can't really judge anyone. Although we never agreed on anything, it was fun having you here to spice it all up.

That last name calling bit was a bit over the top but hey I missed everything so no further comments.

thop
13th December 2002, 18:05
I knew my nose wasn't lying when i smelt another Jorden incident was about to happen ... btw. where is that MURC exile forum where Gurm and Jorden live?

What i really don't understand Gurm is, why didn't you call the police? As you never got tired of repeating, they are bound to protect your constitutional right of freedom of speech! ;)

(that was my last joke with gurm :()

RichL
13th December 2002, 18:06
Although you pride yourself on being a royal PITA 99% of the time, I'm actually sad to see you go.
Whilst I missed all the fun and games between you and Greebo, I will say this (and to hell with it being deleted or me banned).
Gurm has always been a objectionable, opinionated S.O.B. but beneath it all he was honest about it.
Greebe on the other hand, has not inspired me to think of him as a paragon of honesty, virtue and uprightness in the (thankfully) few dealings I've had with him.

And thats my 2 cents after my 2 fifths to kill off my insomnia. :)

Kruzin
13th December 2002, 18:14
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Greebe
13th December 2002, 18:15
and I would like to hear all of them Rich

KvHagedorn
13th December 2002, 18:25
Well, you will be missed if you do indeed decide you must live up to this statement now that you posted it (which would be a loss on all sides), but it would be as honest to come back one day if and when you reconsider and say "hello again, I've reconsidered.. I was really mad and was hurt by what happened, but hey, screw it, I'm bigger than that." Anyone who has been here any length of time would not take even your most outrageous insults too seriously, and that's a good thing (think about it.) But you are going too far with these, really. Spar with Greebe if you think he wronged you, (and you have the verbal skills to do so without being as low-school as you have been) but you know Ant has to support his Moderators. There is no reason to insult him as well, just for being as loyal and decent a fellow as he is. Be a grownup and apologize, as you would have Greebe do to you.

You are a colorful character, and it's interesting to hear what you have to say whether any of us agree with you or not, and you have been an asset to the forums. Most all of us will be sad to see you go, and even sadder that you decided to end it this way. Those kind of base insults are not worthy of you, man.

agallag
13th December 2002, 18:29
Well put, KvH.

Joel
13th December 2002, 18:34
But changing his avatar, his sig and posting his crap in every thread was going just a little too far. This is not the first time that he has had his hand slapped for this kind of thing. He just tends to go overboard when he goes off.

Joel

Greebe
13th December 2002, 19:05
BTW all _hSUBpar_ is Gurm... just another means for him to stuff the ballot box. :rolleyes:

Let me add that Gurm has generated many additional accounts to disguise himself for the purpose of lurking which Ant deleted most. So in addition to banning him, deleting most of these accounts, mass editing of post, his sig, avatar, we have an additional bonus of having to close the MURC down to new members because of Jason's current frame of mind. :(

Dr Mordrid
13th December 2002, 20:14
And some people wonder why Digital Media Net forum moderators want to be given thread locking, list membership signups and management over "errant" messages :rolleyes:

In many ways I'll miss Gurm for the fact that he could sitr up a conversation (world class understatement there 'eh?) but OTOH forum administrtors do have to maintain some control over behavior and access to their lists. Multiple accounts to avoid responsibility for your doings is a definite no-no.

Bye Gurm/_hSUBpar_ or whoever else you are/were

Watch out for that swinging door Kruzin was talking about.....

Dr. Mordrid

efty
13th December 2002, 23:14
Bye Bye Furm :)

I do hope you change your mind and come back, even though I did not really enjoy your insulting comments.

Your reaction to the whole situation was childish and something I did not expect from you.

ZokesPro
13th December 2002, 23:45
In the end you went too far Gurm, but remember this, I will miss you. You were very VERY opinionated but that is your right and I enjoyed reading your opinions on various subjects.

Take it easy dude, and get well (if your still a little ill that is).

WyWyWyWy
14th December 2002, 00:29
Any COMPLETE story on what exactly happened??? o_O

Anyway, Gurm I'll miss you...

Admiral
14th December 2002, 00:43
I'll miss Gurm too, though I didn't always agree with him, too radical sometimes. Unlike others at least he was being honest and blunt about it.
I wouldn't judge his "feable" state of mind too harsh, in this "modern" society of ours many may find themselves in such a state at some point in their life.

take care Gurm :)

Technoid
14th December 2002, 01:04
It's sad to see it escalating to this...
But he did it to himself!


Bye Gurm :(

Hope we se you again :D

Ant
14th December 2002, 01:53
He could have had an argument with someone without resorting to the foul language, offensive avatar, creating new accounts with offensive names etc etc. It was obvious how I would react to that I don't care how many posts a user has against their name, they behave like that and they are gone. Let's be honest here there's no one I've had more complaints about in the history of this forum than Gurm but I've given him a lot of rope, seems he was just hell bent on hanging himslef with it.

Tempest
14th December 2002, 02:49
Gurm, seeing you go is sad... You've brought me more laughs than anyone else on this forum, you misanthropic SOB.

I understand that you were upset, after all you've always been the one for freedom of speech. But I'm also sure that you've now realized that your way of expressing your anger was childish.
Swallowing your pride can be hard, but you should've kept your anger to a personal level instead of polluting forums outside Site Feedback and The Soap Box with foul language. Fighting against the mods is like a child fighting against his parents... It can go on for a while, but sooner or later it's gonna be sleepy time. You know it's a good place to be, even if the minuses include one or more Wonder Impalas.

Hey, but if it's of any consolation - you're right, Mozilla sucks.

Evildead666
14th December 2002, 03:50
Its Christmas.

Where is everyones Christmas Spirit?

http://www.icesculpture.co.uk/img/big/bluesmirnoff.jpg

And what in Hells name happened to my opinionated friend Gurm?

It takes two to have an argument you know!!!
Think about that please.....

Evildead666
14th December 2002, 04:27
Oh, just read ALL the posts.....

Not going near that one with a 50 ft barge pole.

TdB
14th December 2002, 07:33
bye Gurm :(

too bad you had to leave like that. :(

K6-III
14th December 2002, 07:54
Gurm has a reputation of sorts on the Hercules forums as well....

Wulfman
14th December 2002, 08:00
imho the initial posting wasn't worse than some other product bashing we have here regularly - about VIA, MS, NV or ATI.

but the way (and how fast) the situation got out of hand was incredible.

sorry to see you leaving gurm.

mfg
wulfman

William
14th December 2002, 11:02
Strange, I didn't see all of this little debate, but I've been struck by how much Gurm & Greebe have resembled spoilt, squabbling little kids in a playground. I've lost all respect for both of them. @Gurm: Don't stumble on the way out. @Greebe: Since I can't add you to my ignore list, I'll just be ignoring you the old fashioned way.

@Ant: (and this one genuinley a question) when we log into MURC are we still entering the kingdom of Ant, or is it now a communist state with a central comitee?

High_Jumbllama
14th December 2002, 11:31
This place has always been pretty much a free for all foir the most part. The only exception is when people get out of line. People are expected to follow the forum rules.

Pace
14th December 2002, 11:53
Originally posted by Joel
But changing his avatar, his sig and posting his crap in every thread was going just a little too far. This is not the first time that he has had his hand slapped for this kind of thing. He just tends to go overboard when he goes off.Last I saw was the Hpar stuff, hopefully Gurm has taken Hpar with him ;), although I hope we can leave the door open for Mr Boomstick himself ;)

Ant
14th December 2002, 12:02
I retain the right to run this site the way I have for the last 7 and more years, I retain final control over it. Moderators on these forums have been picked from users of these forums, they have certain priveleges but I expect them to only use them as I have made clear to them. If moderators don't do that and abuse those priveleges and I recieve complaints about them then they will no longer be moderators if those complaints are upheld. To this day that has not been the case.

As many of you are aware I've been able to spend very little time around the site these last few months and I have been dependent upon the mods to keep things running as I expect. If for some reason people have issues with the mods then the course of action is to bring those issues up with me.

If Gurm had problems with Greebe as a moderator rather than simply has another forum user then he should have addressed those issues with me and not acted as he did which was absolutely disgraceful and there are absolutely NO excuses for the way he behaved on these forums. If Gurm had behaved that way against anybody else on these forums the end result would still have been the same, it has nothing to do with the fact that Greebe is a mod. Gurm is obviously someone with a lot of problems, he has publicly stated that here and I wish him well in recovery but I simply will not tolerate that sort of behaviour.

So William, to answer you clearly the MURC is stil the dictatorship is always has been, and that's how it will remain.


Originally posted by William
@Ant: (and this one genuinley a question) when we log into MURC are we still entering the kingdom of Ant, or is it now a communist state with a central comitee?

William
14th December 2002, 12:23
Thank you Ant.

Dr Mordrid
14th December 2002, 12:52
Well said Ant.

Dr. Mordrid

DGhost
14th December 2002, 13:16
William - Greebe reacted in the way that a moderator should. I saw most of the IRC pissing contest Gurm chose to get into. Greebe didn't resort to the childish behavior that Gurm swooped to.

Gurm, since i know you are reading this... you were not the resident ****ole, you were the resident spoiled child...

Slougi
14th December 2002, 13:44
Originally posted by DGhost
William - Greebe reacted in the way that a moderator should. I saw most of the IRC pissing contest Gurm chose to get into. Greebe didn't resort to the childish behavior that Gurm swooped to.

Gurm, since i know you are reading this... you were not the resident ****ole, you were the resident spoiled child...
Agreed! Was there too, at least at the beginning. :alien:

Jessterw
14th December 2002, 14:20
Honestly everyone should just drop the matter and let the people involved handle it.

Kosh Naranek
14th December 2002, 14:42
Everybody seems to be eager to point their fingers at Gurm.

However ....


1. Why did Greebe delete the two posts in question ?

2. What did they say that made them "not wanted"

3. Why did Greebe go to Gurm's IRC channel to argue with him over something written/done in this forum ?

I haven't posted/participated in this forum for a loooong time, but for what I have read about this issue this is turning into a similar case as the corrected benchmark figures at [H], which this forum wasn't late to criticize/ridicule. (In this case it's deleted posts, not altered posts).

So ... Forum Mods are always right ?

Wrong ....because forum mods are people like you and me and they have opinions like you and me, the difference is they have the power to enforce their own opinion on you and me by exercising their powers and thus should be held to a higher degree of liability than the ordinary forum user.

I only know Gurm from this forum and from some IRC channels and I don't really like him that much, but in this case Greebe might be the one to blame.(I'm not defending Gurm or his actions .. but to delete a post simply because you disagree with it .. that sux and BTW .. Mozilla aint all that)
I haven't seen any stataments from Greebe explaning what happened or why he deleted the posts made by Gurm, he's been using the "silence will kill" approach and that isn't fair at all.

Sure .. he's a MOD and ANT is backing him as he should, but even mods are wrong ...just visit IRC if you don't believe what I'm saying.

DGhost
14th December 2002, 15:33
1) it was one post in question. and it was because he was flaming in response to a question that someone asked. personally, i think Greebe might have overreacted in deleting it (and not just telling him it wasn't appropriate).

if there was another post that was deleted, it was probably Gurms response to the deleted post... and it probably was fairly insulting... which is highly inappropriate and Gurm, being as much of a regular as he was, should have known that...

2) first post was a flame. it was inappropriate at the time. Gurm knew this.

3) last i checked, Greebe didn't argue with Gurm at all. he told him he was out of line. it was Gurm who proceeded to argue.

as far as the forum mods being always right or not... well...

Gurm was WAAAAYYYYY out of line by doing the shit he did. he should not have proceeded to insult Greebe. he should not have said the things he said. Any arguement or protest that he had with the actions were immediately lost in his rather childish name calling/spam fest.

As far as being on IRC... were you on IRC when this shit happened? seriously? he told Gurm why he deleted the posts. Gurm was the one who started the shit that got him banned.

Gurm didn't get temporarily banned because he flamed someone. he got temporarily banned because he was literally spamming random threads with insults directed at greebe. combined with the fact he changed his avatar and sig so that he could insult greebe as well... and he still shows up randomly in the IRC channel... this afternoon he showed up under the name of "****er".

if Gurm had an issue with this thing, he should have taken it up in a better mannor instead of acting like a child about it...

RedRed
14th December 2002, 16:13
I am with Greebe on this. I have had my share of run-ins with the mods and others. I know when to stand and fight, when not to (even if I am sure I am in the right...)

spamming and being a base troll are things that grum hates. He simply cant resort to being a pr1ck like that in return.

I have a lot of respect for him - he was the first to respond to my first post in this forum - my first post anywhere - but as Ant said earlier, we live here by Ant's rules. They are good rules. Gurm had twisted them before and got away with it with a wristslap- but he knew he was on his last chance.

RedRed

GNEP
14th December 2002, 16:33
It seems I have missed a fair bit... but whatever, I have enjoyed Gurm's posts in the past, so in a way am sad to see him go.

But still, this place is what Ant/the Mods let us make it at the end of the day. And it seems pretty much OK to me :)

I will just live on in blissful ignorance of this little exchange...

[GDI]Raptor
14th December 2002, 18:00
Grum was way over the line, but I think Greebe perhaps shouldn't have deletet the post just because Grum said something he didn't like, I'm not shure it was any personal instults there, but we live in a free world (I come from Norway and that's a free country) and if Grum thinks that Mozilla sucks, he is free to think that, I totaly agree by the way!

Greebe
14th December 2002, 18:46
The point is 103er-Fan had already said he likes Moz. So Gurm's responce was inappropriate and I deleted it.

Yes I did scold him in #burningdesigns but only to tell him to chill out, nothing more nothing less.

He freaked out with the additude, who the hell do you think you are deleting MY posts, mentality and the rest is history.

I did not attack him whereas he most certainly did. I did not spam his channel like he did #murc, or profusely spam the MURC with a most undignified unGODlike manner.

Like Ant said, he was handed ample rope for all the other misgivings and instead decided to hang himself with it.

BTW he's still pulling his tricks :rolleyes:

BuddMan
14th December 2002, 18:54
I'll add that something similar to this happened to me. I recommended a sub to someone in the forums, and Greebe openly protested it and said it wasn't a good sub. So I went to AVS forums and posted about it and then posted the discussion here and a few other points about it. What happened? Greebe suddenly deleted the post and locked the thread. I was surprised to find it locked and the posts deleted, as was many others. And what did Greebe do? He lied about the reasons for the deletion, said I was saying things I never even said. What did I do? I posted about it once and then let it go. Why? Cause the mods will back him no matter what, so why argue?

I remember Greebe pm'ed me about the "Go get laid" messages I would make in the birthday threads, and he told me that everyone wanted me to stop. I told him THEY could pm me and tell me this and I would stop and apologize. He got mad, because, of course, no one else was complaining about it. What did he do? He deleted all of my posts in the General Hardware/Software forum. Why did he do it? I dunno, but I didn't care.

So what I'm saying is that little skirmishes with mods really shouldn't get to people. Let them do what they want, it's their forum. Their actions only show what this forum is all about. It's a great place to have discussions....just stay out of the mod's way and nod your head like you would to a child.

As for what Gurm did, I'm sorry he resorted to that. Sad to see him go too. He was the only other person in this forum that knew as much about LoTRs as I did (hell, probably more). Enjoyed the discussions with him...

Greebe
14th December 2002, 19:07
Oh 1 last thing.. I didn't delete anything until after Gurm started the sarcastic flame bait offensive. That's what promted me to delete his first post to begin with.

To be honest while I'm not pleased with everything he had to say, especially the dreadnought of sarcasm, I did like him none the less... actually am very concerned about his health and current frame of mind (being unemployeed and all)

Have been asked why in the heck I agreed with Gurm on many an occasion and I'd respond with, you can't bash a guy who is correct.

That is all I have to say about this.

Greebe
14th December 2002, 19:30
I'll add that something similar to this happened to me. I recommended a sub to someone in the forums, and Greebe openly protested it and said it wasn't a good sub. So I went to AVS forums and posted about it and then posted the discussion here and a few other points about it. What happened? Greebe suddenly deleted the post and locked the thread. I was surprised to find it locked and the posts deleted, as was many others. And what did Greebe do? He lied about the reasons for the deletion, said I was saying things I never even said. What did I do? I posted about it once and then let it go. Why? Cause the mods will back him no matter what, so why argue?

Budd, all I have to say is YOU changed what had been said after the fact and that is the ONLY reason why posts were deleted and the thread was locked.


I remember Greebe pm'ed me about the "Go get laid" messages I would make in the birthday threads, and he told me that everyone wanted me to stop. I told him THEY could pm me and tell me this and I would stop and apologize. He got mad, because, of course, no one else was complaining about it. What did he do? He deleted all of my posts in the General Hardware/Software forum. Why did he do it? I dunno, but I didn't care.

First off I never said everyone I said I had recieved many complaints.

And no I didn't get mad :rolleyes:, but I was sick of your additude towards anything I suggested.

To coin a phrase (so to speak) "Riiiiiiiiiight" was the mentality towards anything I said from the very beginning.

We all heard how you don't like me before, dispite the fact I tried to address what all with you in an attempt to show you why what all had been done and why what I did was neccessary. It was a moot point and was nothing more than a waste of my time.

BTW this isn't your podium to whine for this thread has nothing todo with you or the slurred truths you speak of. So if you don't mind get off that we hate bandwagon. Geesh :rolleyes:

Joel
14th December 2002, 19:50
I think Jesterzwild has the best idea of all.


Honestly everyone should just drop the matter and let the people involved handle it.

So on that note I am closing this thread.

Joel