How Yugoslavia outsmarted NATO

[Wombat]

Kind of a fun, McGyver-esque read.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021119/ap_wo_en_po/air_defense_tricks_2

[Dr Mordrid]

The problem for those wishing to try these techniques again is that the Yougoslavia experience caused changes to prevent them from working again.

Not the least of these changes was a total revision from the MILNET satellites of that time to a new and enhanced generation, along with corresponding gear on the ground, to prevent such jamming from working. This also ignores the fact that Predators can fly recon missions without the need for ground control.

And we aren't even talking about the Global Hawk or Dark Star yet

Other sensors have also been upgraded including those on missiles and the IR weaponry and guidance systems.

Dr. Mordrid

[thop]

hehe i like that.

[Technoid]

Have they also fixed the Apaches?

[CHHAS]

Global Hawk, Dark Star ... when do we see the Death Star ?

Wonder if they have people hired for the sole purpose of naming stuff ?

[GT98]

Originally posted by Technoid
Have they also fixed the Apaches?

Nothing to fix on them...just too afraid of losing them and the public backlash that would accompany the loss of troops etc. Its a neat article and stuff, but if a ground war ever started the Serbs would have suffered serious losses and what they did to to hinder the Air Campain (which also pointed out the flaws in a air-only campain) didnt help them in the long term...they still lost.

Another neat thing I heard the Serbs do was use Hind Helicopters to fly next to the UAVs to shoot them down But like it was said before the DarkStar UAVs Fly much higher then a Preditor UAV and is hard to see on radar and what not, and is a much harder target to take out now.

The Stealth Fighter shoot down was plain stupidly by NATO. They where flying the same routes night after night and the Serbs wised up and decided to throw up everything they had in that area and got lucky. Stealth isnt a cureall for dectection, but sure as hell helps alot!

GPS bombs have been upgraded to resist jamming...if you know how GPS works you need three Satalitles to trianglate your position on earth. If you jam the signal only thing your doing is cutting down the accuriessy of the bombs and going from a couple meters of hiting the target to tens of meters.

[goldstein]

but if a ground war ever started the Serbs would have suffered serious losses

Doubtful, the Germans thought the same thing during WW2 and they lost the use of 10 crack divisions against the Partisans.
I've visited that country many times over the years and it seems pre-designed for guerrilla warfare. The JNA is probably the most effective army (efficient use of resources/terrain) in Europe. But they were led by a Nutbar (Milosevic - who is proving so crafty at the Hague trial where he actually may be found not guilty) so the whole strategy for Kosovo was unsound.

Fortunately there was no ground war, but I believe it would have been unbelievably bloody for all sides. Also, I doubt that the bombing of Yugoslavia would even have occured if the timeframe shifted to after 9-11. With the terrorist threat in Kosova by the KLA and it's recognized links to Al- Quaeda and other terrorist groups, I think the Yugoslav Army would have free reign from NATO/US.

Funny how fast things change these days, chicken one day - feathers the next.

[Admiral]

Originally posted by goldstein
Funny how fast things change these days, chicken one day - feathers the next.

These days ? what about Sadam and Osama ? ... oh wait, that's in reverse, umm... what about Musharaf ?

[Dr Mordrid]

One at a time Admiral....one at a time....and he's just a bit lower on the list than Syria, North Korea and Iran; but then Iran's getting ready to take care of itself.

tick.....tick.....tick.....

I don't think people realize how many changes and improvements have come along since Gulf War I and Kosovo. The current technologies make 90% + of bombs "smart", which frequently results in a one-shot-kill. In GWI and Kosovo it was more like 10%.

This kind of change makes each sortie as effective as 8-10 sorties using the previous technologies.

Dr. Mordrid

[thop]

maybe bush can make that easier for us if he says who isn't on the list

[Dr Mordrid]

Well....think about it and the list makes sense.

North Korea has admitted that it's violating nuclear weapons treaties. More disturbing is that UN estimates say it will have enough plutonium generating capacity to make 50+ warheads a year once their reactors come online.

Even given that all they have now is the reactors testing fuel, which they already have in storage, they still have enough plutonium for a considerable arsenel of nukes even if the reactors never come online.

Now....NK has been selling missiles, radars and other advanced weaponry to Iraq, Iran and just about anyone else in sight including Syria. Syria then passes a lot of them on to Hamas, the PLO's surrogates (who, in a major act of "bravery", uses them to blow up women and children ) and numerous other terrorist organizations.

When you turn over a log you often find not one viper but a nest.

Dr. Mordrid

[Admiral]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
One at a time Admiral....one at a time....and he's just a bit lower on the list than Syria, North Korea and Iran; but then Iran's getting ready to take care of itself.

tick.....tick.....tick.....

You'll have to excuse me but I found it rather hypocritical when after he succeeded taking power by military coup and the Brits were considering removing Pakistan from the Commonwealth, 9/11 came and Tony Blair was somehow portraying him as an upholder of democracy because he was aiding the anti terrorist alliance now.

[Dr Mordrid]

Any port in the storm my friend. This is an alliance of strateigic convenience at best. Eventually he will get his, but only after we get what we need out of him and his ilk.

On the other hand, if he "reforms" and starts putting a choke-hold on the radical madrassas that keep churning out Al Qaeda recruites and Taliban-oriented clerics then all the better for everyone concerned. This is one situation where death-row conversions can count

Dr. Mordrid

[goldstein]

Dr. M, what is your opinion on Israel's possession of nuclear weapons? It is a well known open secret about Israel's nuclear capability - stabilizing or destabilizing to the Middle East?

just one of many many links:

http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/Israel/

[Dr Mordrid]

Stabilizing. Definitely.

If Israel didn't have them I'm sure the Arab states so inclined would have started another region-wide genocidal war long ago. Not good for anyone.

Now...one would think that the Arabs could just attack Israels main missile base (Kfar Zachariah) and her air bases, then move on to the civilization centers. Kfar Zachariah would be vulnerable because the last I heard it didn't have hardened silos. Neither do most air bases.

This would't work now because Israel also has missile attack submarines (German made Dolphin class) that can launch nukes. In fact the Dophins are among the most advanced attack submarines in service. These replace and are twice the size (187 feet) of the old Gal class subs in service until recently.

In terms of capability Israel has updated the Dolphins original Sub-Harpoon missiles (range: 130 km) to a new sea-launched cruise missle that has a range of at least 1500 km. Each Dolphin class can carry up to 16 missiles, torpedos or a mix of the two.

With Israel so armed the neighboring states are limited to supporting intefadah's and general terrorism. An open war is out of the question because they know the result of even coming close to winning would be their countries (or at least that portion housing the leadership class) being vaporized.

Oops.

BTW: Israel became a nuclear power in 1966, so it's not exactly a new capability.

Dr. Mordrid