ATI wins my battle for DVD capture

[keithm]

After using a Matrox marvel G400, Huffyuv, PivVideo and Mjpeg I got tired of having to convert captured files into Mpeg2 for DVD. It was taking hours for a fast PC (Athlon 1600XP) to convert the files and it was impossible to capture a video, convert it and write it to DVD-r in an evening. And I want to transfer a lot of old VHS to DVD.

In the absence of Matrox producing a new budget video capture card (haven’t they missed the boat a bit now that people are beginning to get into home DVD production?), I placed a post on the is forum about ATI capture cards.

Some positive reponse (thanks Paul M) from here and the Ulead forum promoted me to try a Radeon All in Wonder 32 meg-and you know what, it works.

The card can capture in real time to DVD compliant Mpeg2 and the quality is very good indeed, certainly the equal of anything I did using the Matrox. There maybe a little bit more noise in strong colours but the pros outweigh the cons.

I can now capture real-time video for Mpeg2. Using Ulead Mediastudio Pro 6.5 I can remove adverts etc and if I set the output file attributes so they are the same as the source (bitreate, size ect) Ulead will create the file without re-rendering. In less than three hours I can have 1.5 hours of video edited and on a DVD. Previously this would have taken about 8 hours!

It’s a shame Matrox don’t get a new capture card out quickly because they may just pay the price for having once been the leader in home video production.

If you want to try this yourselves, the ATI Radeon All in Wonder and the ATI Radeon VIVO 64 (no tuner but much cheaper) use a chip called the rage theatre for video capture; you need the Radeon versions because they can use the latest drivers which have presets for DVD capture.

PS: to anyone who has followed my attempts to get a Marvel G200 to work with anything other than it’s original drivers-I failed. Another reason for trying the ATI.

[Brian Ellis]

Let's face it Keith, RRS, RRG, Marvel G-200 and G-400 are now past it. It always amazes me how much phosphors are used on my screen reading about guys who have problems with these museum pieces, when there are modern, low-cost alternatives that work under any conditions you can throw at them. I scrapped my Marvel G-200 in Spring of this year, since which time I ask myself why I didn't do it earlier.

Don't get me wrong, I think it was Marvel-lous in its day, but technology has advanced beyond it since then. It was the Ford model-T of video capture but even a Fiesta is better today, even if both share the fact that they are four-wheeled vehicles designed to get you from A to B with reasonable technology of the day.

[keithm]

Ah: but the Raddeon all in wonder ain't a new card. Incidently, I am only using an AMD Duron 1000 for the capture machine so the work is being done by the card.

There are a lot of Radeons about on ebay but be aware of a few things:

for the All in Wonder you need a DVI to VGA adapter to connect up a PC monitor and an input adapter cable.

The VIVO 64 uses phono for composite in and out (no svhs) but some versions don't capture: the oem version I presume is missing the rage theatre chip.

Lastlt: Sapphire make an ATI VIVO card with composite and SHVS in/out on standard connectors which sells for £72 inc VAT. I don't know what the quality is like or if it uses the Rage Theatre but if it does is could be the cheapest realtime DVD capture card around.

[Will Hay]

Anyone have next week's lottery numbers?

Unfortunatley some of us have to stick with these museum pieces as current financies dictate other, more pressing priorities (an 8 month old child and one income springs to mind), therefore dinosuars like myself will continue to waste your monitor pixels and hopefully gain invaluable knowledge in keeping this card, and my brief introduction in video editing, ongoing.
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Keith,
I would be interested to know what your setup is.
I borrowed an ATI from a pal before I was given my G400 (and bought a RR-G from the US as I couldn't find one over here) and had all sorts of problems.
I'm trying to scrape together enough cash to change my motherboard and soundcard, but would consider the ATI if if it was compatable with my system.
Will

[keithm]

I am capturing with a 1ghz duron on an abit kr7a raid (crap board coz of the via latency bug and now relagated to my second pc), with 256 ddr and a generic Yamaha XG sound card. Using win 98se or Win 2k, boot drive is 4.3 gb but video drive is 80gb samsung. Video card is 32 meg radeon all in wonder with latest divers. This set up will happily capture Mpeg2 compiant video at 720x576 at a bitrate of 5000kbs and the quality is really good.

If you look on Ebay you will find these cards at anything between £25-70...but you need the cables and the dvi-vga adapter.

I have seen ATI Radeon VIVO 64meg cards for £33 on Ebay, providing they are the version that does capture video (must have the rage theatre chip installed) and you don't need SVHS they are a bargain.

Lastly there is the Saphire VIVO (available from www.ebuyer.com) for about £73 inc vat. This card is ATI based, has composite and SVHS in/out. I have looked at the picture and I think it has the rage theatre chip-might be worth emailing saphire or Ebuyer to get some facts: might try that myself!

I still have my Marvel G400 in my main PC and if I want to edit analogue footage it's still a great card, but for fast conversion to mpeg2 I think the radeon will be hard to beat.

Makes you wonder thought if Matrox had put their mind to it if they could have come up with a realtime Mpeg2 capture driver for the G400.

[Will Hay]

Hi Keith,
At present I'm only capturing anologue, home movies taken from an old videocamera and a selection of old vhs tv episodes.
I'm not even getting remotely close to the quality I'm inputting, and having disabled my soundcard (and seen an increase in quality) feel it responsible for the terrible captures, in conjunction with my VIA chipset of course
I've seen a board on ebay with an intel chipset (and including a P3-750) so providing the price stays where it is now (£40-ish) I may go for it.
I have an Athlon 800 already so can't imagine I'll lose much processing power.
I'm also gonna change my soundcard too, so whilst was considering the ATI don't think it'll be the best move if I have to keep my VIA chipset *and* SB Live 1024 (I can't afford new card, motherboard and soundcard I'm afraid).
I only have one hard drive, a IBM Deskstar GXP so imagine a second drive (only for capture) would be a big benefit yes?
Many thanks,
Will

[Will Hay]

I take it this is the one you mean...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2067788953

For that price it might be worth the risk!
None seem to include cables, will any old monitor cable suffice and will I need any other cables if I'm simply capturing from anologue?
Will

[keithm]

Will, the intel board probaly won't work with your memory! the 733 P3 is 133 buss

[keithm]

Also, i think with a redeon your athlon should capture fine. It says on the box a P2 for good capture and a P3 for best, I think the athlon is the equal of the P3.

[keithm]

the ebay could be the wrong VIVO, you must check it will capture, a lot of the OEM ones don't. Mail the guy or check this link

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2067498185

he says these capture and only £33 (have to copy and paste the link)

[keithm]

Yes your monitor will be fine, you don't need special cables with VIVO, your soundcard should be ok too. If you can capture realtime mpeg the via issue ain't so bad because the datarate is quite low. Mind you the G400 should be ok. Have you got DMA turned on for your drive and how old are the 4in1 drivers

[Will Hay]

Via 4-1 and DMA

I remeber dowloading and running them a few months ago, but now you mention it I had a problem with my hard drive and re-cloned a back-up on a few weeks back, so may not have the latest.
Brian the terrible (are you really in Cyprus Brian, you have the same name as my pal in Liverpool and he's clued up on comp's too!) explained that to find the chipset type and motherboard ref. I've have to open up the box but I take it I'll find the chipset driver version in system properties right?
===
How much difference do you think a dma enabled hard drive would make, compared with one that isn't (I can't remember if it is, I seem to remember enabling it a while back but had a few lock-ups) and...
...how much difference do you feel an additional hard drive would have, just used for capture?
Thanks,
Will

[Will Hay]

Oops, very nearly!

Originally posted by keithm
Will, the intel board probaly won't work with your memory! the 733 P3 is 133 buss

Thanks.
I was under the misguded impression I could use lower spec memory and utilise it at 100.
Thanks, you've saved me a couple of quid there......

[Will Hay]

Extract from Ebay Auction

Originally posted by keithm
the ebay could be the wrong VIVO, you must check it will capture, a lot of the OEM ones don't. Mail the guy or check this link

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2067498185

he says these capture and only £33 (have to copy and paste the link)

The following extract is from the auction I originally posted, so this *must* be the Video In and Out one right?
He's sold one since I saw it this morning, does seem to too good to be true!
Will
---
Video capture and TV/VCR-output support (optional features)
Radeon™ uses ATI's RAGE THEATRE™ companion chip for high quality video encoding and decoding.
Capture MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 full motion video at 720x480 30 fps resolution .
Grab still images from VCRs or camcorders with composite input

[Brian Ellis]

Will

Yes I'm really in Cyprus, in a village of 1,110 inhabitants. No, I've no connections with Scouseland, although my paternal grandfather was THE schoolteacher in Ellesmere Port (before it became industrialised) from, I think c. 1860 to the turn of the century. My father was born there in 1887. I've never lived there (I'm from Edinburgh, originally, but I've lived most of my life in Switzerland).

I could return the compliment. There was a famous Scottish comedian called Will Hay, whom I remember seeing in the late 1930s....

Right, to business...

1. Apparently, you wish to capture analogue video with an analogue codec. This is the most technically demanding and difficult way of doing things and you must have a reasonable box of tricks to do it faultlessly.

2. IMHO, my minimum spec, to have a reasonable chance of drop-free performance (with the ideal in brackets), assuming hardware capture with a Marvel/RRG, is:
CPU : 500 MHz (> 750)
Chipset : NOT VIA (especially with Pentium)
RAM : 384 Mb (512 or more)
HDD : 2 mandatory, of which 1 is >~50 Gb, 7200 rpm, UDMA, reserved exclusively for video on IDE 2 master (RAID striped 0 with 2 or more drives, 40 or more Gb each, 7200 rpm, UDMA)

3. This is minimal. If you wish to use a software codec, either with a Marvel or another analogue capture card, then you will need better processor power, to be sure, pref. > 1.5 GHz.

4. There is a cheaper way of doing things and your existing computer may be OK, as is (no guarantee). It will require 2 purchases: an IEEE 1394 card, which you may be able to find for < £ 15 on ebay and a DV bridge, such as http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=2068231749
which is an excellent buy. This takes most of the stress from the computer and olaces it in the black box, which takes your analogue input at a quality comparable with Marvel (better in some cases). This is exactly what I'm doing and I don't have money to burn either (OAP!). I used to use a Marvel and I have no regrets moving on (and I have no problems with W2k/XP, either).

5. I know £ 125 is over your budget, but I think the way you are going will cost you more than that, anyway, before you get satisfaction.

6. And Live! works with my system!!!

FWIW