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Wombat
31st October 2002, 00:54
I'm getting together another system, so I'm upgrading the main box :)

I need another PS. I'm strongly leaning towards PC P&C Silencer models. Anything else I should seriously consider?

Case:
This industry has really exploded over the last few years. There's so many choices now. I value function over form, but a little extra on the looks couldn't hurt.

It needs:
Easy MB mounting (like a slide-out tray)
At least 2, preferably 3, 5-1/4 accessible bays.
Easy access for all the parts changing.
Removable drive cages for the HD drives.
Absolutely NO acrylic windows. I hate that.

I'd like:
Aluminum looks fairly cool, but beige is still okay.
USB ports built in to the front
Fairly roomy inside (I have room for a full size server, but they tend to be $$$, so big mid-size is okay)


So, any advice?

KvHagedorn
31st October 2002, 01:23
I know lots of people will recommend LianLi, so here is my favorite among their cases..

http://www.wjasp.com.tw/upload/a0000010/en_US/prd_381.jpg

http://www.lian-li.com/product.php?action=viewPD&prdid=381

Pair this with a PC Power and Cooling 475 ATX-PFC power supply and you'll have one sweet setup. ;)

I think I would use the two lower 5 1/4 bays and mount a 120mm intake fan at an angle.

RichL
31st October 2002, 01:33
My current main system is housed in a Globalwin 802, which has good build, plenty of interior space, 3x 5.25" bays and enough space for a top mounted 120mm blowhole.

For my server box I nearly went for an Antec SX1040/Cheiftec Dragon case. They look good and are well rated by lots of websites, but they only have 4x5.25"bays and ultimately I decided I needed six of them and didnt want to fork out for an Antec 1240 0r 1440.

VJ
31st October 2002, 01:43
I have the older PC70 model by LianLi (like the picture posted above). Just be aware that some of the large LianLi towers do not have a MB-tray. Personally, I don't see the need in these cases: they are so roomy, you can easily access all components.

Jörg

mutz
31st October 2002, 02:31
This is my Lian Li PC70, though I have made a few changes since the pic. See sig for contents.

Wombat
31st October 2002, 02:31
Cool, replies already.

Let's see:

KvH: Wow, that does look like quite a nice case. The 70/71/72 all look quite nice, but cost a little more than I was planning on spending.

RichL: I have an 802 as well. I like it, and would consider something in the same class, but just trying to shop around. That, and suppliers seem to have high prices for them or charge a lot for a crappy PSU with it that I won't use anyway.

VJ: Yeah, some of the bigger ones don't have a tray, but they do have an easily removable back side, which serves the same goal.


Looking through newegg's inventory, the PC-82 looks like a good fit for my needs, but the visual appeal is only so-so.

What's a good site to browse cases? It's easy to track down a case if you know the model number, but there aren't any good places to peruse these days.

GNEP
31st October 2002, 02:38
Whilst we are on the subject, what PSU brands do you all recommend - choice at the moment is: Enermax, CWT, Hiperpower, Supermicro - I don't know too much about this area, but need to get a new one pretty sharpish (having big stability problems, and think that it is the crappy generic PSU I have...)

Thanks

Gnep

mutz
31st October 2002, 02:45
Mine is a CWT slightly modified by BlackNoise. Don't know what or where, but I shorted something about a week ago. The PSU stopped everything instantly. Turned the PSU on and off a few times to reset it. The machine started back up as if nothing had happened. Otherwise I don't even know it is there, which is a high recommendation in my book...

GNEP
31st October 2002, 02:53
Been looking through some of the other PSU threads on MURC - it would appear that CWT might be the best bet.

Cheers Mutz.

VJ
31st October 2002, 03:09
Originally posted by mutz
This is my Lian Li PC70, though I have made a few changes since the pic. See sig for contents.

The material on the inside of your case, I suspect they are for minimizing the noise ? Does it perform ok (not too much heat issues) ? Do you have a link for them ?
(I was hoping to silence my case somewhat, the main source of noise in my rig are 2 10K drives)

Jörg

luni
31st October 2002, 04:34
RichL: well, chieftec also produces full tower versions of dragons with 6 bays :)

GNEP
31st October 2002, 05:00
hehe - just ordered a new CTW 450W PSU. Should be here tomorrow. And whilst I was at it, ordered a new mobo as well... just in case that's where the problem lies. Doesn't matter if not - got a mate who could do with my old one anyway.

Guess which mobo I went for? Yup - thought I'd join the club with an MSI 745 Ultra :)

Gnep

WyWyWyWy
31st October 2002, 07:49
YY Cube!!!
Highly recommended.
Good price on newegg and directron.

Pace
31st October 2002, 08:04
Where did you get it Gnep? (the PSU anyway)

mutz
31st October 2002, 08:07
...yo Gnep!

Hi VJ! Yes, that's NoiseBlocker and it does a good job. No heat issues since the aluminum box isn't really much of a heat sink anyway. What you want to look at is air flow evenly through the whole box, no stagnant or turbulence pockets.

Mechanical noise, though dampened a good bit, can still be transmitted over the case frame, so you can try to put little vibration buffers to isolate the drives and to the floor or anything the case touches.

http://www.noiseblocker.de/

VJ
31st October 2002, 08:15
Is this the type: NB-EvolutionEQ (I find 2 types) ?

Do they come in pre-cut versions for the LianLi (I remember a company that mats pre-cut for the PC70, but I forgot the name) ? Or do you simply order the surface you need and cut it yourself ?

I don't seem to have that many vibration noises (apart from when my dvd-drive spins up), the most noise I have is from the hard disks spinning and seeking...


Jörg

GNEP
31st October 2002, 08:27
Pace: Scan.co.uk (I've used them before but am aware of their "sister" company Scancom's problems reported here :) We'll see this time.

Will report when I am up and flying again!

Guru
31st October 2002, 09:06
Originally posted by luni
RichL: well, chieftec also produces full tower versions of dragons with 6 bays :)

http://www.teamdgc.com/computers/comp1.html

KvHagedorn
31st October 2002, 09:45
Well, if the Lian Li is too expensive, you might try the case I have used for several computers I have built, including my own most recent one.. an Enlight 7237. It has everything you want except the pullout motherboard tray, but it is spacious enough inside to not need it. You get 4-5 1/4 bays and 3 3 1/2 bays, and the 3 1/2 bay cage removes easily. there is also room for what I consider the essential mod: installing a 120mm fan in front. I ripped out the 80mm fan and plastic cage, put the 80mm in the back and the system speaker on the case floor. Then I went to town with a drill to aerate the front and installed the fan using 2" 6/32 screws, spacing it out with nuts so the case front will clear. Then you can cut out the bottom of the front plastic bezel at various points to ventilate. It looks stock, but really sucks air through it! You can get this case without p/s for 50 bucks almost anywhere. I got mine with the 340w Enlight p/s to serve til I can order a PC P&C.

mutz
31st October 2002, 10:32
I bought two sets of mats. Enough to thoroughly do the P70 and part of another tower. Don't know of any kits for the P70, I cut everything, which I prefer anyway.

The only kits I have seen are from Magic Fleece for the CS-601. Tests and locals I know say NoiseBlocker is the best.

I can hear the intake and exhaust fans, not loud, but from inside the box I hear nothing, three HDDs not at all. Of course the noises from the CD's and DVD come out from the front and around the tray.

nunchalnaomi
31st October 2002, 11:54
Hi,

This is not an endorsement, but more of a question. I'm thinking about the a153 antec plus 1080amg-soho file server. It has a 430 w p/s. It is around 140$ in the sf, ca usa area. What do you think of this ? I will have 2 removable drives, 2 additional drives, a matrox rt .x100, etc. I'm adding 3 enermax fans. Will it suit wombat or I? Do you think it is a good p/s ? Thanks Nunchal

Admiral
31st October 2002, 12:02
Might I dare suggest a colored Apollo (http://www.chieftec.com/images/Apollo/2-AL-01DB.jpg) from Chieftec ?
It's not that big and it doesn't seem to have a slidable motherboard tray, though everything else seems to be easy to mount on it.
details (http://www.chieftec.com/products/Apollo/Apollo.htm)
And it does have a more appealing price than the Lian Li's.

Wombat
31st October 2002, 14:39
I went in and bought a Chieftec DX-01. It doesn't have a slide-out tray, but the rest of the setup looks pretty good. $62 shipped. The Lian-Li PC-62 looked perfect to me, but that would have been 3x as much.

ZokesPro
31st October 2002, 15:01
Wow nice case, shitty Cheiftec doesn't ship to Canada. :(

RichL
31st October 2002, 15:29
Originally posted by Guru


http://www.teamdgc.com/computers/comp1.html

Thats no good to me, its upside down! :D

Wombat
31st October 2002, 15:45
Zokes, tons of people sell Chieftec. In my hunt I found it as Chieftec DX-01, Enermax FS710, and Antec SOHO something. I *think* it's actually made by an OEM called Chenming, not that you'll find it sold as that.

Newegg only had the "Chieftec" ones with side windows in stock. They still had the Enermax and Antec ones though, for example.

Trust me, you can find it.

GNEP
31st October 2002, 15:58
Haven't we all been busy with our credit cards today :)

Wombat
31st October 2002, 17:45
Not <I>that</I> busy. I only spent $110 total. Thanks to Greebe I found a good PS at newegg for $46 shipped (Allied 450W). I need a new power supply (currently underclocked to keep this system stable, too much load for my 350W), and a case is the last thing I need to build a second system out of spare parts.

GNEP
1st November 2002, 02:16
Well, my MSI 745 arrived today, as did a nice fat 450W CTW PSU.

I think I'll be busy later on :)

Anyone else find this sort of thing more fun that playing games, or is it just me? (joking!) ;)

mutz
1st November 2002, 02:19
...definitely not just you!! :D

GNEP
1st November 2002, 02:39
:D Glad to know I'm not alone...

mutz
1st November 2002, 02:50
Got this Logitech MX700 mouse yesterday. Smooth as silk, but gotta get get used to the new buttons. Still haven't figured out where to put the double click.

Got a new 120 GB drive and Norton Ghost yesterday too. Thought Ghost would get backing up off my back, but still looks like I've still got to remember to do it. I'm lazy...

Admiral
1st November 2002, 03:06
Originally posted by ZokesPro
Wow nice case, shitty Cheiftec doesn't ship to Canada. :(

They don't seem to have a Canadian distributor on their list (http://www.chieftec.com/offices/offices.htm) (there is one for my country though :clown: ).
But the US distributor Directron (http://www.directron.com/cases---case-fans.html) seems to just have added Canada (http://www.directron.com/canada.html) to their direct online ordering list.

rugger
1st November 2002, 03:36
Originally posted by Wombat
Not <I>that</I> busy. I only spent $110 total. Thanks to Greebe I found a good PS at newegg for $46 shipped (Allied 450W). I need a new power supply (currently underclocked to keep this system stable, too much load for my 350W), and a case is the last thing I need to build a second system out of spare parts.

You must have a real crap power supply then. A 350W power supply should be able to handle just about ANY current single cpu system.

I am running almost (about 1 hard drive less) as much, using a 250W power supply.

Sorry for my outburst, its just that this power supply inflation is really getting on my nerves. I am worried that within a few years (if it isn't the case already) that we could be running 600W power supplies that are no better (and really can't supply anymore power without damaging itself) than today's decent 300W power supplies.

GNEP
1st November 2002, 03:41
The problem is that mine (generic POS) claimed to be a 300W one - in reality I am fairly sure it is less than 250W. Parhelia and a few extra fans seems to have pushed it over the edge. (At least I think so - I will know soon for sure when I first swap out the PSU, test and then swap out the mobo).

The same amount of power should be drawn and on the quarterly bill though, give or take :)

But yeah - in essence I agree. PSUs never used to be much of an issue. Now they are.

rugger
1st November 2002, 04:24
Originally posted by GNEP
The problem is that mine (generic POS) claimed to be a 300W one - in reality I am fairly sure it is less than 250W. Parhelia and a few extra fans seems to have pushed it over the edge. (At least I think so - I will know soon for sure when I first swap out the PSU, test and then swap out the mobo).

The same amount of power should be drawn and on the quarterly bill though, give or take :)

But yeah - in essence I agree. PSUs never used to be much of an issue. Now they are.

I know about generic power supplies :) Had one blow on me a few weeks back. But for most configurations, even generic power supplies work ok.

What I am really worried about is that people simply go out and buy the biggest "number" supply they can find, without thinking of whether they are really getting a power supply that can supply this rated output. They will go home, plug their computers into it and it will work perfectly. (because the computer doesn't need anywhere the amount of power rated on the power supply)

And we will still be here bitching and moaning how our overrated power supplies still fail to give enough current to midrange computers. :)

So, if you are going to buy a very big (400W or more) power supply:

1) It should cost a fair bit. Highend power supplies don't grow on trees, and I am slightly worried about the price you are paying for yours wombat. (but I also realize that high power supply prices may simply be an Australian oddity)
2) You should be able to physically beat generic power supplies to death using a highend power supply. If it isn't built like a tank, or weight the equivalent of a tank, then it probably isn't as highend as you think. (See the IBM Model M keyboard and HP laserjet rule)

Sorry for offtopic ranting again. However, back on topic, I do recommend the Li-Lain cases if you want a pretty case, and A-open power supplies if you want a fairly decent, but reasonable cost power supply.

GNEP
1st November 2002, 04:28
That's why they teach industrial designers to add a lump of lead/steel/concrete to the bottom of products aimed at the high end :)

rugger
1st November 2002, 04:33
Originally posted by GNEP
That's why they teach industrial designers to add a lump of lead/steel/concrete to the bottom of products aimed at the high end :)

ROFL, I have heard about that. I am just waiting for a concrete filled power supply to arrive at my local computer shop. That should sell quite well. :D

But real higher end power supplies generally do ship with larger heatsinks, more circutry and more durable casings.

GNEP
1st November 2002, 04:40
Well, this CTW I have just got is about twice the weight of the generic jobby it is replacing.

To be quite honest though rugger, the difference in price between a 300W branded PSU and a 400W one from of the same brand is not huge in the UK - so to remove the PSU from the equation of what is causing system instability, IMHO it is best to just over-spec it. Even if you're not really seeing the advertised wattage, you wouldn't guarantee that with a lower-W one you'd see what you are expecting either.

Gnep

rugger
1st November 2002, 05:13
Originally posted by GNEP
Well, this CTW I have just got is about twice the weight of the generic jobby it is replacing.

To be quite honest though rugger, the difference in price between a 300W branded PSU and a 400W one from of the same brand is not huge in the UK - so to remove the PSU from the equation of what is causing system instability, IMHO it is best to just over-spec it. Even if you're not really seeing the advertised wattage, you wouldn't guarantee that with a lower-W one you'd see what you are expecting either.

Gnep

gnep

Can't argue there, just don't like the direction we are going :(

fleabus2
1st November 2002, 08:48
Hi: Just built a new system with:

Lian-Li PC-6089 Aluminum mid-tower case w/4case fans (includes blow-hole fan)

http://www.lian-li.com/product.php?action=viewPD&prdid=774

Enermax EG651P-VE FMA 550W ATX+12V ver1.2 PSU

http://www.enermax.com.tw/product-01.htm

Usual CPU temp: 38C
Usual mainboard temp: 36C
Front two and PSU rear fans set to medium speed
No over-clocking

The rest of what the case contains:

Asus P4T533-C s478/i850e
P4 2.8b retail
1GB (4x256MB) OCZ (Samsung) PC1066 RIMMs
Promise Ultra133 TX2 controller
2x 80GB Maxtor D740x 7200RPM ATA-133 HDDs
Toshiba SD-M1612 DVD-ROM
Plextor PX-W4012TA CD-R/RW
Matrox Parhelia512 128MB AGP retail
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard

Very happy with this case/PSU. Suprisingly quiet. Case is roomy enough and well engineered for ease of use and airflow.

Happy trails,