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  • Some say we shouldn't have the death penalty.

    I ask the question, 'why should the American taxpayer be victimize to keep some of these sick f***s alive and in jail for the rest of their lives when that money could be used for better things like education for our children?'.

    Liberals' Attack on Death Penalty Backfires

    Bleeding-heart liberals' latest attack on the death penalty has blown up in their faces.

    "For nearly two weeks, the details of Illinois' most gruesome murders have been replayed for the public in a marathon set of clemency hearings that death penalty opponents now believe may have backfired and hurt their cause," the Associated Press reported.

    Lame-duck, scandal-plagued Republican Gov. George Ryan apparently thought he'd redeem himself by issuing blanket clemency and freeing all criminals on death row. But things got off to a bad start when horror stories told by victims' families dominated the hearings, and people became outraged that murderers tried to claim they were too stupid to have to pay for their crimes.

    "The pain and passion of these families is deafening," fretted Larry Marshall, a Northwestern University law professor who has led the attack on Illinois' death penalty. "It's so overwhelming that people are forgetting all the problems that got us here."

    Chicago's two major newspapers have even urged Ryan to stop the hearings. "Halt the anguish, Gov. Ryan," implored an editorial in the Chicago Tribune. "Ryan's hearings cruel and unusual," headlined an editorial in the Chicago Sun-Times.

    The public grew furious when the hearings revealed just why those poor little criminals occasionally end up on death row:

    A couple shot and killed a woman, cut her nearly full-term baby from her womb, and killed two of her other children.

    A man tortured his mute, severely retarded stepdaughter for five years until she died.

    Two brothers beat a sleeping couple to death with baseball bats. The husband was struck with such force that parts of his skull "looked like a crushed eggshell."

    A man murdered a couple after telling them to have their last kiss.

    A man took eight women to remote locations and stripped, bound and murdered them.

    "I can't imagine the public has heard such a parade of horrors combined into such a short time period in American history," observed John Gorman, a spokesman for the Cook County State's Attorney's Office.

    AP reported Wednesday: "Family members have transformed the hearing rooms into photo galleries of the dead. They have pointed to the infants in the audience who would never know their grandfathers, the sons and daughters who grew up without parents."

    "You could not sit in that room without feeling human and without feeling how vulnerable it is to be human," said Arvin Boddie, a board member who was booted by the left-wing thought police after criticizing the hearings and defense shysters.
    Joel
    Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

    www.lp.org

    ******************************

    System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
    OS: Windows XP Pro.
    Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

  • #2
    Being from the UK I have not heard of the hearing but have heard of the crimes. We dont have the death penalty but if anyone remembers the dunblane shooting from several years ago - I thought long and hard as to wether I would have voted yes to the penalty if the murderer had not killed himself at the scene and in that case it would have been yes. From what you have posted about the cases being re-heard currently they are particularly greusome and again I feel that the penalties should stand.
    hmmmmm

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    • #3
      My only problem with the death penalty is that fairly often the Police cock up or make the evidance fit due media going over board and creating mass hysteria. Until they get it right I would find it hard to say yes.
      Chief Lemon Buyer no more Linux sucks but not as much
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      • #4
        well, Im against death penalty, because I believe everyone should have the right(or atleast the possibility) to learn from their mistakes.

        however, this is based on the belief, that every human has a little "goodness" inside them, and deep inside really wants to be a part of society.
        these horrible crimes sometimes makes it really hard to believe in that.
        This sig is a shameless atempt to make my post look bigger.

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        • #5
          i don't think the debate is about wether the death penalty should be applied in case of mass murder or similar crimes.
          why some people have troubles with death penalty is that once in a while someone dies who wasn't guilty (or at least not guilty of the crime he was accused of) because of a mistake. i know this happens very rarely, maybe 1:500 (just a guess, i have no clue really)? but would you want to die because of a mistake?
          no matrox, no matroxusers.

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          • #6
            Here's another case for you and in this one the defense attorneys tried to make the lesser crime of voluntary manslaughter one of the options for the jurors.

            Jurors view Wichita crime scenes

            WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — Escorted by law-enforcement vehicles, jurors in the capital murder case of Reginald and Jonathan Carr yesterday boarded a city trolley to tour the scenes of a nine-day crime rampage nearly two years ago.
            In pouring rain, the trolley slowly drove by the house where Ann Walenta was shot, as well as the house where five friends were abducted and the soccer field where they were later shot. They also drove by the house where the sole survivor of the shootings ran for help and the spot where the murder weapon was found at the side of a highway.
            They also went by the four automated teller machines where the victims were taken, and the apartment complex where police say Reginald Carr was arrested with most of the stolen property from the quadruple shooting victims.
            The trolley did not make any stops at the crime sites.
            The brothers face 113 charges, most of which stem from the events of Dec. 14-15, 2000, when five friends were abducted from a Wichita home, forced to engage in sexual acts and forced to withdraw money from ATMs before they all were shot. The two women were raped. Aaron Sander, 29; Brad Heyka, 27; Jason Befort, 26; and Heather Muller, 25, died. Mr. Befort's girlfriend, then a 25-year-old teacher, survived and ran for a mile to find help.
            The Carrs also are being tried in the Dec. 11, 2000, attempted robbery and shooting of Mrs. Walenta, 55, who later died, and a robbery four days earlier in which Andrew Schreiber was abducted and forced to withdraw cash from ATMs.
            The Carr brothers are black. All their victims were white. The case has provoked criticism from some who accuse prosecutors of ignoring racial hatred as a potential motive in the crime spree.
            As jurors were on their tour of sites related to the crimes, lawyers were in the courtroom hashing out some of the legalities and practicalities of the case against the brothers.
            District Judge Paul Clark ruled jurors will be allowed to find the brothers guilty of lesser crimes, such as first-degree or second-degree murder rather than capital murder for the killings. Defense attorneys tried unsuccessfully to make voluntary manslaughter one of those options.
            Judge Clark also told prosecutors and the two defense teams for the brothers that they each had two hours to make their closing arguments.
            The judge also decided that because all the evidence in the case will not fit in the jury room, the courtroom would be used for deliberations. The courtroom's windows will be covered.
            Jurors also would have access to computer presentations used by prosecutors during the trial, as well as the racks of clothing, televisions and computers entered into evidence.
            Prosecutors are nearing the end of their case, and they began presenting DNA evidence when jurors returned from their tour yesterday.
            Joe House, a forensic scientist with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation, testified that he found blood and seminal fluid on swabs taken from the two women who were raped.
            Of course if the criminals had of been white and the victims black there would have been no options but a first degree murder hate crime charge calling for the death penalty.

            Joel
            Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

            www.lp.org

            ******************************

            System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
            OS: Windows XP Pro.
            Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

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            • #7
              hmm joel have you ever closed a thread you started yourself?
              no matrox, no matroxusers.

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              • #8
                I agree with Thop, as long as mistake can happen, death penalty should not happen either......
                If there's artificial intelligence, there's bound to be some artificial stupidity.

                Jeremy Clarkson "806 brake horsepower..and that on that limp wrist faerie liquid the Americans call petrol, if you run it on the more explosive jungle juice we have in Europe you'd be getting 850 brake horsepower..."

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                • #9
                  What is punishment for?

                  1) Retribution. Well, the death penalty sure does satisfy this one. For about 2 minutes.

                  2) Protection. Yup, the death penalty protects society from convicted criminals. But what about miscarraiges of justice? Can we protect wrongly-convicted people from mob justice?

                  3) Rehabilitation. Errr.... need I say more? OK prison is hardly the answer for this one. But death?

                  4) Payment for crimes. It's quite a high price you know. Even for "inhuman" scum.

                  Does killing a murderer bring back the people they killed?

                  Cost: I've not seen any real numbers, but surely a society that can afford space lasers can afford not to slaughter its own citizens?

                  I say ship 'em all off to Australia... Oops. That's already been done (Sorry Sasq!)

                  /*Disclaimer*/

                  Being a bit of a devil's advocate here
                  DM says: Crunch with Matrox Users@ClimatePrediction.net

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by thop
                    i don't think the debate is about wether the death penalty should be applied in case of mass murder or similar crimes.
                    why some people have troubles with death penalty is that once in a while someone dies who wasn't guilty (or at least not guilty of the crime he was accused of) because of a mistake. i know this happens very rarely, maybe 1:500 (just a guess, i have no clue really)? but would you want to die because of a mistake?
                    I'm with thop and Technoid on this one.

                    The last people executed here before the death penalty was abolished were the presidential couple back at the end of 1989.
                    Now it's life in prison for murder and in our miserable prisons it's punishment enough.

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                    • #11
                      I agree that mistakes can be made that is why there is an automatic appeals process in place for capital murder cases, whether the person wants to appeal or not. Timothy McVeay was one such case. Even though he admitted to the crime and asked for the death penalty the appeals process still was implimented. Plus he was put to death alot more humainly that what he did to his victims.

                      Of course I've heard this same old 'mistakes can be be made' talk from alot of people who have changed their tune very quickly once they became a victim of this level of crime. Let's not forget that in the case of the murder of someone it's not just the person that dies that is a victim.

                      Joel
                      Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

                      www.lp.org

                      ******************************

                      System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
                      OS: Windows XP Pro.
                      Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The problem here; prisons are often have better conditions than a single working stiff could afford;

                        TV's allowed in cell
                        Libraries
                        Health care
                        Room & board
                        Jobs on/off site
                        etc.
                        etc.
                        .
                        .
                        like a freakin' dormatory

                        Some of the Federal prisons even have tennis courts & other athletic facilities to the point people call them the Federal Hilton's.

                        Dr. Mordrid
                        Dr. Mordrid
                        ----------------------------
                        An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                        I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

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                        • #13
                          Take all that away and throw in a Bible.

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                          • #14
                            hmmmmm

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                            • #15
                              Yup, we could throw in a bibble
                              DM says: Crunch with Matrox Users@ClimatePrediction.net

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