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**mutz** · 10 October 2002, 06:58

Well that's hitting the nail on the head, the economy, stock market, jobs. This is the result of all the instability created by our chaotic, unstable, maniac leaders. Life might have been boring with Gore, but it would have been one hell of a lot more stable.

How long will it take? Until people wake up and stop allowing themselves to be distracted from what's important, but that most likely will not happen until it really starts to hurt.

I'm watching my pile dwindle, along with everybody else, and I'm both getting pissed off and worried.

In October 2000, a friend of mine predicted if it's Bush, it'll be chaos, agression, possible war and certainly a steep fall in the economy. If it's Gore, basically bland, but stable smooth sailing.

I sometimes wish to hell that the US wasn't the "world leader", that leadership was more evenly distributed.

Damn!

**Dilitante1** · 10 October 2002, 07:19

The terrorist events would STILL have happened no matter who is in office. We have had a bullseye painted on us for many years in the eyes of many arab factions.

As for going after Iraq, his support of terrorism is a threat to world peace, period. The world powers SHOULD step in and assist in the fall of this animal in charge of Iraq and setup a democratic government that will sustain itself.

The whole point of the UN is to "keep the peace" and it has certainly failed in that aspect. It is a place for horse and pony shows, and BS on a very large and public scale.

**GT98** · 10 October 2002, 07:27

Problem is that back in October 2000, 9/11/2001 didn't happen and anything happening like that was impossible bad dream. The Economy was slowing sliding into the crapper back then and 9/11 didn't help either, with everyone in the US not buying anything for 2 weeks afterwards from the the "deer in the headlights look". What happened for 8 years prior to that was a bubble that went POP in 2000. Not a pretty picture. Also in reguards to the Iraq situtation...an American Sentor made a very asute comment, which was this:

"If we knew 9/11 was going to happen 2 years before it did, we would be screaming where is the proof"

Just something to think about. I'm not sure if the goverment can do much more to help out the economy. I know that lowering interest rates aren't going to do much good since the housing market is so over inflated right now, pricewise, due to people refinacing their houses. Christ my GF handles that stuff and theres people who have bought houses in 99 for $350K that are now valued at $500K and theres no way in hell you can tell me that houses value can go up $150K in 3 years.

**Dr Mordrid** · 10 October 2002, 07:36

The economy now is a direct result of several factors;

1. 9/11 and the aftermath

2. the uncertainty that always exists before a possible war

3. corporate scandals involving fake profits & such. This one IMHO is one that is causing most of the problems as investors are sitting on the sidelines until they're certain that;

a. most of the bad guys have been caught & prosecuted. Well on the way to this.

b. the rest of the CEO and CFO's are too scared to try it again.

c. the numbers put out by the companies they're interested in are real, or at least close to it. Some progress here.

d. the new legislation taking governance over accounting firms away from the SEC and putting it into a new and separate agency looks like it'll pass. On the way here too.

Having governance of both accounting firms and the companies they serve in the same agency sets up a self-serving situation akin to the FAA, an agency that promotes air travel, having control over air safety. Not good.

4. of course the tech market went into the tank when the Feds decided to go after Microsoft. That put the NASDAQ in a terrible position.

5. one of the market segments that has lost the most recently has been air travel. IMO the big problem here isn't 9/11 related anxiety but is instead a problem with the organization of the companies themselves.

The problem is that the companies having problems are still using the very expensive to run & maintain hub system. Those companies that have abandoned the hub system and gone back to point-to-point service (Southwest etc.) are doing VERY well.

Dr. Mordrid

**Joel** · 10 October 2002, 07:36

Hey mutz,

Is there not anything that you won't blame the US for???

Joel

**mutz** · 10 October 2002, 07:38

In times of instability, however, whenever they started, stabilizing leadership and influences are required.

Do you see any? Are there any in sight?

Would you be surprised to learn that the destabilizers had moved to bonds and cash positions some time ago?

What would surprise you?

**Dr Mordrid** · 10 October 2002, 07:49

Stablity is an illlusion. Instability is the norm in world affairs, politics and military affairs. If you missed that point it's because you haven't been paying attention to the last 5000 years of history

Dr. Mordrid

**mutz** · 10 October 2002, 07:55

Blaming? I'm not blaming. I'm talking about what people are doing. People. Doesn't matter who they are or where they are. It just so happens certain people are right now in the spotlight.

Would you prefer to talk about the construction workers strike in Sicily? I'm not sure it has much influence on me or the rest of the world.

It makes absolutlely no difference to me whether you are American, Chinese or Fijian. Joel is Joel, Doc is Doc, GT is GT and I am me. I don't care where you are or what you belong to, I'm talkin to you.

Did I say the US is doing this or that, or Bush is doing this or that? Bush is a person, just like you and me. His shit stinks too, and he puts on his pants one leg at a time.

If I say Bush, I don't mean Joel.

If I say "I", I don't mean somebody else.

Eh?

**Dogbert** · 10 October 2002, 07:56

Asumption: People like being in control of themselves and of the reality surrounding them.
Reality: People enjoy the illusion of the above immensly.

Asumption: People like stability. They like to find things where they where before. They like waking up in the morning knowing nothing changed.
Reality: People need an illusion of stability. Given that, they become somewhat content and later a little bored. Bored people like nit-picking.

Asumption: ...
Reality: people need/like an illusion of the above.

Conclusion: People as a collective are morons and in a way, deserve being treated as such.

**agallag** · 10 October 2002, 08:29

I think Tommy Lee Jones said it best in Men In Black:

A person is smart. People are dumb panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

**Dilitante1** · 10 October 2002, 09:02

re: The Economy

back to the origional subject
Fortune magazine has an excellent article for all to read talking about the future of the Generation Xers like me....

http://www.fortune.com/indexw.jhtml?channel=artcol.jhtml&doc_id=209746

**Joel** · 10 October 2002, 09:35

Actually the economy in the US under the current administration is a reflection of policies implimented in the previous administration. Just look at how good things were during Clinton's first four years but how things started going downhill during his second term. Of course 9-11 helped to speed things along.

Joel

**The PIT** · 10 October 2002, 10:35

I like that Joel. In this country every Government says it's the previous administrations fault even if it was the same party. The conclusion whoever started Government has got a lot to answer for.
Now seriously it does take time for change to happen. However with todays media everyone expects change overnight.
If anyone wants a good laugth about politics read yes Prime Minister. It's Brilliant.

**KvHagedorn** · 10 October 2002, 10:38

Originally posted by agallag
I think Tommy Lee Jones said it best in Men In Black: "A person is smart. People are dumb panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

So tell me again why democracy is a good idea?

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